I'm almost with you: I still feel the rules surrounding when VAR can intervene and when it can't are a complete shambles.
PGMOL are indeed crap and somebody should have lost their job over this by now.
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[Football] VAR April 2023 Poll - Fit for Purpose?
- Thread starter Guinness Boy
- Start date
PGMOL are indeed crap and somebody should have lost their job over this by now.
Clive Walker
Stand Or Fall
we've seen this year that the drawing of the lines is open to human error. I don't feel the current technology is fir for purpose.
Yes, that's fair enough. Obviously it should be easy enough for people who aren't completely incompetent to put the line in the right place, but when they are as useless as the idiots at PGMOL then I suppose it needs to be 100% idiot-proof, which it isn't.
- Thread starter
- #124
Interesting suggestion, but I would like a second opinion.
But I'm sure as a neutral, nobody is that fussed by the fact we lost by the odd goal in three on Saturday.
The fact that a neutral spectator thinks it was all jolly good entertainment wasn't the problem that VAR is supposed to fix.
Exactly. There is nothing wrong with the concept, its the implementation that is at fault. The PL needs to look at sports where it is working well, even adding to the game. The original need was not to make all the decisions mm correct, rather to rid the game of howlers, somehow that got lost.
Hove Lagoonery
Well-known member
- Dec 16, 2008
- 1,039
Indeed-it should be sub-conscious
Hove Lagoonery
Well-known member
- Dec 16, 2008
- 1,039
That sort of demo lost us points in 1996-7, didn't it? Resulted in us avoiding the Southern League by a whisker.
You’re quite right of course, I don’t think I was even on the right thread…Indeed-it should be sub-conscious
Withdean11
Well-known member
It's easier to accept wrong decisions without VAR, so i'd rather get rid than keep it how it's currently being used. However, that's not going to happen so they need to change how they are using it.
I'd suggest;
1. Introduce 'clear and obvious' for offsides and check all goals based on this. It should just take a quick glance to see if the on field decision was wrong.
2. Allow clubs to have a certain number of challenges, say 5, each season for everything else. Handballs/penalty's/red cards etc. These can be examined in more detail and the challenging team will only lose a challenge if they are unsuccessful.
Other than that, let the game flow.
I'd suggest;
1. Introduce 'clear and obvious' for offsides and check all goals based on this. It should just take a quick glance to see if the on field decision was wrong.
2. Allow clubs to have a certain number of challenges, say 5, each season for everything else. Handballs/penalty's/red cards etc. These can be examined in more detail and the challenging team will only lose a challenge if they are unsuccessful.
Other than that, let the game flow.
That's a good question. I think the Mac Allister goal would have stood. Otherwise, it would have been the same shocking decisions. VAR really should be useful but, unless they sort it out sharpish, we may as well go back to just one referee getting everything wrong on his own. At least we'd get quick mistakes.
Five a season? We'd have run out of challenges on Saturday alone. Lenglet/Mitoma/Mac/Mitoma/Dunk/March.
SUIYHP
The King's Gull
The existing system is not fit for purpose, though Im not sure how effective it ever truly can be. NFL operates a similar system of video based reviews for close call decisions (though I’d argue they have even better technology and better angles) it is a lengthy process that already feeds into a 2/3 hour long game and even despite that it does not always get the right call as it is often open to human interpretation. Tiny details are being scrutinised closely and often controversy surrounds NFL refereeing. That being said I dont think association football needs that same precision- its pretty bloody obvious when a player has made a bad foul or when a player has not realistically put enough weight into a run to be in an offside position.
IMO I think the entire system needs to be suspended with a complete review from an independent inquiry and for the FA, PGMOL and EPL to act based on its conclusions. This nonsensical ‘change as we go’ approach happening between seasons is a farce.
IMO I think the entire system needs to be suspended with a complete review from an independent inquiry and for the FA, PGMOL and EPL to act based on its conclusions. This nonsensical ‘change as we go’ approach happening between seasons is a farce.
Blues Guitarist
Well-known member
It sometimes feels like the referee avoids making a decision thinking that VAR will bale him out if he's missed something bad. But then VAR thinks that the decision is wrong, but not clear and obvious so does nothing.
If a referee was working without VAR, he may make different decisions.
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Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 6,589
It was a bad idea in the first place. Forced upon football by the media outrage at decisions ever being wrong. Instead of saying that humans make mistakes and that it was part of the game, footballing bodies convinced themselves that they could acheive faultless objectivity. They couldn't and it turns out that the media didn't really want them to. They just wanted things to talk about.. endlessley. Like all 24 hour news does.
Rather than admit defeat, the authorities have tilted at more windmills, showing how accurate they can be at measuring offside decisions, disregarding that, before their latest toys, the game had moved towards giving the attacker the benefit of the doubt, because these tiny margins don't actually provide advantages and people watching football actually quite like seeing goals.
Goal line technology works, if someone remembers to turn it on. Everything else is subjective, unreliable, unnecessary and needs to go. Unfortunately, it won't. The standard of refereeing in English football is particularly poor, but you'll have noticed that, in recent times, every poor decision becomes an argument about VAR, not about poor refereeing. It provides a smokesecreen for incompetence. The only way we'll be rid of it is if everyone just accepts that sometimes there will be errors and that we'll just have to poke up with it. Saturday proved that even people like me, who argue that its the only solution, will find this almost impossible to accept when it disadvantages us.
Rather than admit defeat, the authorities have tilted at more windmills, showing how accurate they can be at measuring offside decisions, disregarding that, before their latest toys, the game had moved towards giving the attacker the benefit of the doubt, because these tiny margins don't actually provide advantages and people watching football actually quite like seeing goals.
Goal line technology works, if someone remembers to turn it on. Everything else is subjective, unreliable, unnecessary and needs to go. Unfortunately, it won't. The standard of refereeing in English football is particularly poor, but you'll have noticed that, in recent times, every poor decision becomes an argument about VAR, not about poor refereeing. It provides a smokesecreen for incompetence. The only way we'll be rid of it is if everyone just accepts that sometimes there will be errors and that we'll just have to poke up with it. Saturday proved that even people like me, who argue that its the only solution, will find this almost impossible to accept when it disadvantages us.
chickens
Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
- Oct 12, 2022
- 1,866
I’d keep the bits that are automated and lose the bits requiring human intervention. So the goal line tech to stay, the offside to be implemented when it’s fully automated and not managed by a fool with a wax crayon and a poor sense of perspective.
Reimplement other features as and when they’re fully automated and have a lower statistical error rate than the human equivalent.
Reimplement other features as and when they’re fully automated and have a lower statistical error rate than the human equivalent.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,315
will reiterate point there is not any specific technology to VAR. it's rules and use of existing video by an official. there's no equivalent of Hawkeye, or Snickometer here. the implementation is everything.
the Welbeck goal would have stood without VAR. thats why it was so poor in this game, it's use denied us a goal, while missing so many important errors its supposed to have picked up.
Point 1 I agree with. It was the howlers that brought VAR in to begin with, no spectator in their right mind would be getting a frigging ruler out and deciding that the players big toe was a mm in front of the defenders elbow.
Point 2 I would do it similar to tennis and Cricket. 2 failed calls per game and if it is inconclusive the original decision stands, eg if a ruler is needed to determine offside then the decision stands.