UKIP are now a parliamentary party

[Creaky]

Honestly I don't think it would, not with the majority. Which makes me sad. I think long gone are they days that we should think of just ourselves, the world is massively interconnected and we should strive to increase standards (health, education, transport etc etc) across the globe and not just on our own doorstep. Helping poorer countries, if done correctly, should help us in the long term.

But, I am also aware the greed of mankind will make that unlikely to happen and that what I said sounds like a happy-clappy hippy commune. But should that stop us trying? I hope not. And of course the UK electorate should be asked, and the government should do what they want, whether you or I individually agree with them, after all that is democracy. I just don't trust any of the parties to give out the un-biased facts to enable the electorate to make an informed judgement and instead it will be full of twisting and sound-bites, and whoever has the best TV and press persona will win and not the person with the best ideas.

It's often those who demand the better off in this country should contribute more, in order that the less well off can be supported, that are also anti foreign aid.

As one of the top 10 richest countries in the world based on GDP that position is untenable - I don't apply this position to UKIP or their supporters though as they have made quite clear that they believe the rich should be allowed to hold onto more of their wealth whilst benefits for the less well of should be reduced.

 

[cunning fergus]

Is that it? Forgetting your obsessing about what Labour are doing in every post you write, is that all you can come up with?

Is complaining about the old politics really the new politics?

What more do you want?

A Labour party based on its old principles would not have sold this country out to the EU, I reference UKIP's policy for exiting the EU to the current Labour party as means of demonstrating to you and the neo tory Blairites how far it is that Labour has moved from its old political ground.

For old Labour supporters who understood how the old Labour party viewed the EU, they can see how the low wages and free market economic chickens have come home to roost, as Peter Shore and other predicted.

As you can tell from my posts, I support an exit from the EU, because its the only way that the working class in this country will be protected...........both economically and as it would appear from some of hard working Latvian types existentially!!

You are moaning about UKIP but I suspect you would probably support the current Labour/Tory/Lib Dem/Green policies of continuing in the EU. You need to stop moaning about UKIP and start providing a narriative why staying in the EU is in the UK's interests.

How about justifying the €363bn CAP that we are paying for?

 

[pastafarian]

If the only papers that support you are The Express and the Mail that probably tells you a lot.

I read The Mail (think im the only one on here that admits to it) and this sort of claim i can only presume comes from some one who doesnt read it.

The Mail much more often than not routinely attacks UKIP. It is still firmly a Tory backing paper.

I have no idea how The Express report UKIP,i imagine its Diana related though

 

[Creaky]

What more do you want?



You are moaning about UKIP but I suspect you would probably support the current Labour/Tory/Lib Dem/Green policies of continuing in the EU. You need to stop moaning about UKIP and start providing a narriative why staying in the EU is in the UK's interests.

How about justifying the €363bn CAP that we are paying for?

Why don't UKIP want to stop the equivalent of the CAP subsidies even if we leave the EU

 

[GT49er]

I have no idea how The Express report UKIP,i imagine its Diana related though

Brilliant!

 

[Bold Seagull]

What more do you want?

A Labour party based on its old principles would not have sold this country out to the EU, I reference UKIP's policy for exiting the EU to the current Labour party as means of demonstrating to you and the neo tory Blairites how far it is that Labour has moved from its old political ground.

For old Labour supporters who understood how the old Labour party viewed the EU, they can see how the low wages and free market economic chickens have come home to roost, as Peter Shore and other predicted.

As you can tell from my posts, I support an exit from the EU, because its the only way that the working class in this country will be protected...........both economically and as it would appear from some of hard working Latvian types existentially!!

You are moaning about UKIP but I suspect you would probably support the current Labour/Tory/Lib Dem/Green policies of continuing in the EU. You need to stop moaning about UKIP and start providing a narriative why staying in the EU is in the UK's interests.

How about justifying the €363bn CAP that we are paying for?

Labour Labour Labour. They're not even in power. Why are you so obsessed? Why can't you just talk about UKIP and what their policies are not just leaving the EU, but also following an EU exit. Their strategic planning, what will happen to the country. The SNP lost their vote purely because people worried about the unpredictability of the future if they left the Union. The same will happen with a referendum on the EU. Unless UKIP and their euro-sceptic supporters can come up with some convincing answers and believable policies post EU membership, then it is all just hot air.

I really haven't moaned once. I've asked you politely and respectively to share these policy values and strategies regarding the party you're championing, and in 4 or 5 posts you go on twice as much about Labour as you do the party you're supposedly supporting.

 

[Soulman]

I'd say anyone who wanted some work done on their house on time, at a fair price and by someone who is competent and takes pride in their work. I know there are good British tradesmen ( such as our [MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION]), but there are too many rip off merchants.

If people want protectionism by voting UKIP then fine, but accept the economic consequences that come with it.

Ok here is my opinion on the British labour and the Eastern European labour.
I have over the years worked alongside many different nationalities, and have worked for Swiss, Swiss/German, German, Japanese, Italian run jobs and probably a few others iv'e forgotten about. Our Electrical system is second to none.
When i started my apprenticeship straight from school, i had to go to college for 3 years on a 4week college and 6 week site work basis, visa versa and in the last year, one day college and 4 days site work. After virtually 5 years i could be graded as an Electrician, which mean't technically i could not have an apprentice with me. After two years as a sparks and because i had passed my C&G B, i could apply for my Approved Electrician, and could then technically have an apprentice with me. I covered all aspects of the trade.
In the USA for example the training is for one specific type, ie first fix, containment only, wiring only etc, which is why a UK sparks are thought so highly of.
These days i meet so many apprentices/sparks that have only dealt in twin and earth and plastic trunking and i have on a few occasions had to give a last year apprentice a crash course in pipe bending the last week before their final practical exam.
So, the JIB (training board) which i contribute to now use the money to train Sparks in Poland etc, they get a guaranteed job here, and the training costs come out of their wages, which will be lower than the JIB national rate, hard for UK sparks to compete with eh, and what about training our youth?
The Eastern European sparks that come over are not as good as our proper trained sparks, which is why many plump for the easier option of house bashing.
The Eastern Europeans are normally hard workers, nice people unless you they are the majority on the job, where they can become a bit anti (Wembley Stadium for example) but many UK workers work just as hard.
As mentioned, most of the Eastern European sparks/other tradesmen work over here for a year, go back home and so get their tax back, get the dole from here and Child benefit for a few months, then do the same again, not all granted.

 

[Soulman]

Labour Labour Labour. They're not even in power. Why are you so obsessed? Why can't you just talk about UKIP and what their policies are not just leaving the EU, but also following an EU exit. Their strategic planning, what will happen to the country. The SNP lost their vote purely because people worried about the unpredictability of the future if they left the Union. The same will happen with a referendum on the EU. Unless UKIP and their euro-sceptic supporters can come up with some convincing answers and believable policies post EU membership, then it is all just hot air.

I really haven't moaned once. I've asked you politely and respectively to share these policy values and strategies regarding the party you're championing, and in 4 or 5 posts you go on twice as much about Labour as you do the party you're supposedly supporting.

Yeah, good old Labour eh..huh.
Labour MPs 'to have to vote against English home rule before Christmas'
The row blew up as MPs in the House of Commons debated the promise of more powers for Scotland - including over taxation and welfare - amid nationalist claims that Westminster politicians were “back-pedalling” on promises made ahead of last month’s independence referendum.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ainst-English-home-rule-before-Christmas.html

 

[cunning fergus]

Why don't UKIP want to stop the equivalent of the CAP subsidies even if we leave the EU

Are you sure?

Is it UKIP policy to ensure our hard earned taxes continue to subsidise tobacco farmers in other parts of Europe?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/23/eu-agriculture-tobacco-idUSL5N0HJ30320130923

Farmers Weekly indicates that UKIP are anti CAP, albeit the EU think there if the CAP was scrapped then there would be riots in the streets as consumers outraged at lower food prices and less tax imposed to maintain it would demand the reinstitution of higher prices and taxes.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/09/10...-would-be-disaster-for-eu-food-security39.htm

and we think UK politicians are out of touch.

 

[Creaky]

Are you sure?

Is it UKIP policy to ensure our hard earned taxes continue to subsidise tobacco farmers in other parts of Europe?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/23/eu-agriculture-tobacco-idUSL5N0HJ30320130923

Farmers Weekly indicates that UKIP are anti CAP, albeit the EU think there if the CAP was scrapped then there would be riots in the streets as consumers outraged at lower food prices and less tax imposed to maintain it would demand the reinstitution of higher prices and taxes.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/09/10...-would-be-disaster-for-eu-food-security39.htm

and we think UK politicians are out of touch.

Have a read

http://anewnatureblog.wordpress.com...l-environmental-protections-and-public-goods/

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

A few years back i worked alongside a Czech sparks, his wage back home was less in a month than he could earn here in a week. Save send the cash home, buy a house outright within 5 years.........job done.

Funny that I worked with some czech lads who done a similar thing, not sparks though
regards
DR

 

[beorhthelm]

Farmers Weekly indicates that UKIP are anti CAP, albeit the EU think there if the CAP was scrapped then there would be riots in the streets as consumers outraged at lower food prices and less tax imposed to maintain it would demand the reinstitution of higher prices and taxes.

there probably would be in France.

 

[cunning fergus]

Labour Labour Labour. They're not even in power. Why are you so obsessed? Why can't you just talk about UKIP and what their policies are not just leaving the EU, but also following an EU exit. Their strategic planning, what will happen to the country. The SNP lost their vote purely because people worried about the unpredictability of the future if they left the Union. The same will happen with a referendum on the EU. Unless UKIP and their euro-sceptic supporters can come up with some convincing answers and believable policies post EU membership, then it is all just hot air.

I really haven't moaned once. I've asked you politely and respectively to share these policy values and strategies regarding the party you're championing, and in 4 or 5 posts you go on twice as much about Labour as you do the party you're supposedly supporting.

To be honest I don't care that much for UKIP per se, for me leaving the EU is the political goal in itself, and I would support any party that was prepared to take that step.

Notwithstanding the fact that the EU is deeply undemocratic, economically insane and poisonous to the interests of the British working class the fact that practically our entire political class want to stay in makes me deeply suspicious about its upside.

I agree with you about the referendum, and personally I don't think The "outs" would win because the demographics of the UK have changed so much in the last 15 years to provide the staying in constituency the greatest chance. It's why we never had one before despite the offers.

That said I think it will eventually collapse from the inside, the euro zone is in deep trouble, the solution to the problem is the removal of fiscal sovereignty from the members........I can't see that ending well, despite the politicians claims to the contrary........especially if they put it to referenda, which is (a) not guaranteed and (b) on previous performance will be ignored if its against the a EU view.

 

[cunning fergus]

Seems fair enough to me he pokes fun at some of the policies, agrees with others and thinks some don't go far enough? His conclusion states:

"The CAP costs the UK about £3bn a year. Will UKIP’s home grown agricultural subsidies be at a lower cost? Possibly in cash terms (though until we know what the pro rata decrease is for uplands we can’t tell). But even though the current CAP is incredibly deeply flawed, doing away with any form of payment for public goods, whether through cross compliance, greening or agri-environment schemes, would have a cost to society, in terms of environmental damage."

Hardly a surprise, he's a conservationist, he is concerned about conservation, albeit in this context he is even more critical of the EU wreaking wholesale damage on fish stocks........

http://anewnatureblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/the-eu-environmental-good-or-ill/

I like his conclusion too, in reference to the increasing influence of the anti EU political parties:

"Mind you they will have a major job on their hands, fighting the very well-entrenched Eurocrats in the Commission on the one hand, The Council of Ministers (many of whom will still be from the mainstream pro-Europe camp) and the massively powerful Euro-lobby of vested interests, whose sole aim is to ensure the flow of public funds to private interests continues – such as our own NFU."

I honestly couldn't have put it better myself, good on you Miles!

 

[Captain Sensible]

Anyone that ever has any doubt, for 1 moment, that Ukip are nothing more than a bunch of far right fools, have a listen to the interview with Farage a few months ago on LBC with James O'Brien. Just because they have an MP now, doesn't mean they have suddenly shaken off all the racist stuff. They have a bit of trouble with that don't they. Ignoring that driving us out of Europe would be a disaster, its the hidden messages in the language used by UKIP and Farage. The Foreigners are always called a 'group of' or a 'bunch of' and they will 'suddenly' move in next door.
Classic!

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Anyone that ever has any doubt, for 1 moment, that Ukip are nothing more than a bunch of far right fools, have a listen to the interview with Farage a few months ago on LBC with James O'Brien. Just because they have an MP now, doesn't mean they have suddenly shaken off all the racist stuff. They have a bit of trouble with that don't they. Ignoring that driving us out of Europe would be a disaster, its the hidden messages in the language used by UKIP and Farage. The Foreigners are always called a 'group of' or a 'bunch of' and they will 'suddenly' move in next door.
Classic!

I know the interview you are talking about it, and it was completely blown out of all proportion.

 

[Captain Sensible]

I know the interview you are talking about it, and it was completely blown out of all proportion.

How?
It exposed Farage as what he is. James O'Brien is better at debate, asks tough questions and has a very good memory to point out all the contradictions in what Farage does, and then says. I'm suprised it wasn't blown into proportion! It got so bad for Farage that one of his spinmen tried to cut the interview short. It seems most Farage admirers have responded to that interview in the same way you have. Blinkered.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

How?
It exposed Farage as what he is. James O'Brien is better at debate, asks tough questions and has a very good memory to point out all the contradictions in what Farage does, and then says. I'm suprised it wasn't blown into proportion! It got so bad for Farage that one of his spinmen tried to cut the interview short. It seems most Farage admirers have responded to that interview in the same way you have. Blinkered.

It would be nice if he actually allowed his interviewees to answer said questions rather than constantly interrupting ( and he does it on almost all his interviews ).

 

[spring hall convert]

i'd guess you probably not a party that gives too much of shit about the environment

I think the reason the Express don't care about climate change is if the weather becomes wild enough, perhaps some of their front page predictions might actually end up being correct.

 

[spring hall convert]

What more do you want?

A Labour party based on its old principles would not have sold this country out to the EU, I reference UKIP's policy for exiting the EU to the current Labour party as means of demonstrating to you and the neo tory Blairites how far it is that Labour has moved from its old political ground.

For old Labour supporters who understood how the old Labour party viewed the EU, they can see how the low wages and free market economic chickens have come home to roost, as Peter Shore and other predicted.

As you can tell from my posts, I support an exit from the EU, because its the only way that the working class in this country will be protected...........both economically and as it would appear from some of hard working Latvian types existentially!!

You are moaning about UKIP but I suspect you would probably support the current Labour/Tory/Lib Dem/Green policies of continuing in the EU. You need to stop moaning about UKIP and start providing a narriative why staying in the EU is in the UK's interests.

How about justifying the €363bn CAP that we are paying for?

What's missing in this country is a UKIP of the left.

Couldn't the Unions do it? I mean they've been getting sod all on the money they've been chucking at the Labour party for 35 years.