Tory - The caring conservatives

[Bozza]

Lastly, it is rather more than disingenuous to imply that a right wing pressure group, comprising Tory Party members and attending the Tory Party conference is nothing to do with the Tories (to quote you, "Organisations that you have no connection with")

Really?

I imagine there are millions of Tory voters who do not believe that the TPA represent them, so why should they now be rushing to condemn them? As I say, there are numerous organisations that do not represent me. I don't condemn each and every one of them as soon as they say/do something I disagree with. Why would I?

That's most gracious of you ....... but somehow I have just the tiniest doubt about the sincerity of your condemnation, so no, it probably doesn't count!

You believe I may support a "don't worry about what they think, they could be dead by the next election" approach to policy making?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

you are joking? about a dozen grans, aunts/uncles etc eligible has claimed it, and use it for sightseeing or popping to town to the pub (rather than walk). its like a right of passage to get once you're a pensioner. and half of them are still working!

I know lots of pensioners who haven't sent off for a card and don't use it. I have used mine about a dozen times in the last three months. It costs roughly 90p per journey.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

And thanks for editing the second quote to reverse it's meaning, very clever!

I didn't 'reverse' its meaning at all. Not one little bit.

I said the TPA were Tories.

You quoted from their site, that they were formed from 'a group of (libertarian) Conservatives' - confirming what I said - they are Tories.

They are not the Tory party - nor did I suggest they were. they are in fact MORE Tory than the central party, and exist because they worried the party were becoming 'not Tory enough'.

Fair?

 

[Nibble]

It's just the usual little englanders defending their beloved Tory party who can do no wrong, even when they are targeting the very people who defended our freedom not so very long ago. Blind obedience, it's what parties like the Tory's count on.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

I didn't 'reverse' its meaning at all. Not one little bit.

I said the TPA were Tories.

You quoted from their site, that they were formed from 'a group of (libertarian) Conservatives' - confirming what I said - they are Tories.

They are not the Tory party - nor did I suggest they were. they are in fact MORE Tory than the central party, and exist because they worried the party were becoming 'not Tory enough'.

Fair?

I don't give a flying feck about the TPA as I find their comments obnoxious as would any fair minded person. I am disgusted at the way ALL parties neglect our pensioners. What pisses me off is that the BBC report what this bunch of tossers recommend and suddenly, according to many on here, all those who voted Conservative are immediately affiliated with them and should hang their heads in shame. If the Government adopted these recommendations, I would not vote for them in future. What I object to is the venting of hate, unilaterally, with unjustified cause.

 

[beorhthelm]

its just the usual people attacking anything raised by anyone associated to the Tories. no discussion of the background, the issues, the complexities, just a knee jerk reaction to condemn. blind opposition...

 

[GT49er]

Really?

I imagine there are millions of Tory voters who do not believe that the TPA represent them, so why should they now be rushing to condemn them? As I say, there are numerous organisations that do not represent me.?

Ah well, it is quite easy to imagine what the silent majority would say if they weren't silent!

And my point was about 'having no connection' - but you have come back using 'do not represent', which is a different argument. The odious (in my opinion anyway) think tank may not represent the Tory Party, but it cannot be said there is no connection; there obviously is.

You believe I may support a "don't worry about what they think, they could be dead by the next election" approach to policy making?

No, I don't necessarily think you do, but you have to admit that the tone of, "I've just condemned it using the strongest possible language. However as I'm in my house by myself no one heard me. Will that do?" is more than just a tad flippant.

 

[Hastings gull]

It's just the usual little englanders defending their beloved Tory party who can do no wrong, even when they are targeting the very people who defended our freedom not so very long ago. Blind obedience, it's what parties like the Tory's count on.

Oh, come on -how very convenient to dream that one up to lend some credence to your point.

 

[GT49er]

............ just a knee jerk reaction to condemn. blind opposition...

Yes, I do remember the Jeremy Corbin thread, thank you.

 

[Hastings gull]

I don't give a flying feck about the TPA as I find their comments obnoxious as would any fair minded person. I am disgusted at the way ALL parties neglect our pensioners. What pisses me off is that the BBC report what this bunch of tossers recommend and suddenly, according to many on here, all those who voted Conservative are immediately affiliated with them and should hang their heads in shame. If the Government adopted these recommendations, I would not vote for them in future. What I object to is the venting of hate, unilaterally, with unjustified cause.

Yes, precisely. I wonder how many on here really care about the pensioners but have just seen their chance to have a go.
The language used was unacceptable - most folk would agree with that, so to try and simplistically claim that all Tories should their hang their heads in shame is absurd.
With regard to pensions, and benefits for the elderly, would not government actuaries use similar hard-hearted calculations in determining what the country can afford? There is of course a way of going about it, I appreciate.

 

[Nibble]

Oh, come on -how very convenient to dream that one up to lend some credence to your point.

Dream it up? There are people who fought to defend this country who will be really struggling when these cuts hit home, most of them are already struggling. But is suppose that poses something of a dilema for little Englanders does it not? On one hand the Tory's can do no wrong but they are punishing people who fought in the war which you lot also like to pretend to care about. It must be a difficult one.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Dream it up? There are people who fought to defend this country who will be really struggling when these cuts hit home, most of them are already struggling. But is suppose that poses something of a dilema for little Englanders does it not? On one hand the Tory's can do no wrong but they are punishing people who fought in the war which you lot also like to pretend to care about. It must be a difficult one.

Nibble, please pull your head out of the sand. These "cuts" recommended by the TPA will NEVER happen. They are NOT Government policy and would have been proposed regardless of which party / alliance was in power.

 

[Hastings gull]

Dream it up? There are people who fought to defend this country who will be really struggling when these cuts hit home, most of them are already struggling. But is suppose that poses something of a dilema for little Englanders does it not? On one hand the Tory's can do no wrong but they are punishing people who fought in the war which you lot also like to pretend to care about. It must be a ridicule one.

Doesn't this say it all about you? Desperate to get into print with sweeping and poorly phrased statements, which veer towards extremes to make a point. The war finished 70 years ago and thus those who fought in the war would be largely in their 90s, so the huge majority of present-day OAPs will not have defended our freedom, as you so dramatically portray. And what evidence do you have that "most of them are struggling"? Some may well be, admittedly. My mum isn't and Denis Healey who recently died would not seem to have been either! Then we come to the accusation of little Englanders . . . . probably best not to dignify it with any sort of response.

 

[Nibble]

Nibble, please pull your head out of the sand. These "cuts" recommended by the TPA will NEVER happen. They are NOT Government policy and would have been proposed regardless of which party / alliance was in power.

Cuts are already happening. Either way, we should ALL be appalled that the Tory government allowed Tory's a platform at a Tory conference and spouted this vile crap.

 

[Bozza]

Ah well, it is quite easy to imagine what the silent majority would say if they weren't silent!

And my point was about 'having no connection' - but you have come back using 'do not represent', which is a different argument. The odious (in my opinion anyway) think tank may not represent the Tory Party, but it cannot be said there is no connection; there obviously is.

Ah, I see why your confusion with this now. I was not discussing any connections between the TPA and the Tory party. When I said:

"How much of your time do you spend making your voice heard condemning organisations that you have no connection with, do not represent you and you do not consider speaking on behalf of you?"

...I was talking about the TPA having no connection with me, and not representing me, the hypothetical decent and caring Tory you mentioned.

 

[Nibble]

[/B]Doesn't this say it all about you? Desperate to get into print with sweeping and poorly phrased statements, which veer towards extremes to make a point. The war finished 70 years ago and thus those who fought in the war would be largely in their 90s, so the huge majority of present-day OAPs will not have defended our freedom, as you so dramatically portray. And what evidence do you have that "most of them are struggling"? Some may well be, admittedly. My mum isn't and Denis Healey who recently died would not seem to have been either! Then we come to the accusation of little Englanders . . . . probably best not to dignify it with any sort of response.

Oh dear. Think I've exposed a weakness in your argument. Hit something of a nerve by the look of it.

 

[The Birdman]

Let's get the Northern power house working and we can all have a better retirement money don't grow on trees.

 

[LamieRobertson]

George is on now ..Nibble I know you will want to listen to him

 

[Diego Napier]

But yes - only the Tories are nasty - obviously.

It's not always obvious and not always the case but yes, you're right, it does tend to be so; after all, the heart of left wing philosophy is concern for others whereas tory ideology is driven by the self.

 

[LamieRobertson]

It's not always obvious and not always the case but yes, you're right, it does tend to be so; after all, the heart of left wing philosophy is concern for others whereas tory ideology is driven by the self.

Ah but left wingers can sound nasty when talking about the capitalist pigs