[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[sparkie]

Manifestos mean SFA anyway. Lots of promises which are never kept. I recall the last GE Labour manifesto gave a commitment to "respect the result of the Brexit referendum". They didn't. They argued and bickered and then came up with no policy whatsoever.

Manifestos are just pages of empty, hollow "promises". That is the way they have always been.

This confuses me.

A manifesto is a commitment to what a party will do in Government. If the party loses a general election the manifesto is ripped up and not acted on - for the simple reason that the party isn't in Government, and in any case the manifesto was rejected by the electorate. So who sticks to a manifesto after losing an election....?

 

[jcdenton08]

Question for Labour Party member friends here. What are new new Labour’s views on defence? Namely Ukraine/Russia then also on Trident?

 

[rippleman]

This confuses me.

A manifesto is a commitment to what a party will do in Government. If the party loses a general election the manifesto is ripped up and not acted on - for the simple reason it the party isn't in Government, and in any case the manifesto was rejected by the electorate. So who sticks to a manifesto after losing an election....?

A manifesto sets out what a party will do in government. Labour published their manifesto stating they would "respect the Brexit referendum result. When it came to the hustings, there was no coherent policy supported by all members of the party, or indeed the MPs / candidates. Ask a Labour MP or candidate "what is your policy on Europe / Brexit?" and you got a different answer every time

 

[jcdenton08]

A manifesto sets out what a party will do in government. Labour published their manifesto stating they would "respect the Brexit referendum result. When it came to the hustings, there was no coherent policy supported by all members of the party, or indeed the MPs / candidates. Ask a Labour MP or candidate "what is your policy on Europe / Brexit?" and you got a different answer every time

Well yes, but the entire campaign was a clusterfuck. You had moderates, remnants of New Labour and Momentum all with very different ideas on what Labour even represented.

They would put forward guests from different factions depending on which source they were appealing to. Sky News’s Labour guests would end up saying the exact opposite to the BBC’s, with an entirely different take from within the shadow cabinet in The Guardian.

What Sir Keir has done is - taken on the surface and from the outside looking in - reunite the party and sack off as many as possible who aren’t getting with the program. Fantastic for the party and the country to have a strong, United opposition ready to take government and start off pulling in the same direction

 

[nicko31]

I found Neil on the whole impartial and a good host.

I actually think Neil on very good at his job and impartial on the Beeb, but not elsewhere. Yet Lineker is chastised for a comment on a private twitter account and he doesn't host a political programme.

Seems the government want to make the rules up when it suits them

 

[jcdenton08]

I actually think Neil on very good at his job and impartial on the Beeb, but not elsewhere. Yet Lineker is chastised for a comment on a private twitter account and he doesn't host a political programme.

Seems the government want to make the rules up when it suits them

I don’t think Lineker has done anything wrong either. It’s a non-story. Nobody is completely unbiased in their views and he hasn’t said anything inflammatory.

Was just pointing out that Andrew Neil on the BBC at least was always scrupulously fair and clearly took his job seriously.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But I really don't think they care if the net result is self harm to the UK, their only concern is popularity and holding onto power.

True, and making millions doing it. Power, greed and money are their motivations.

Question for Labour Party member friends here. What are new new Labour’s views on defence? Namely Ukraine/Russia then also on Trident?

I am not a Party member, nor have I voted for Labour for many years, but this is quite easy to find.

Starmer visits Ukraine to pledge continued commitment to Kyiv if he becomes PM

The Labour leader visited suburbs of Kyiv which saw heavy fighting and alleged war crimes in the opening months of the Russian invasion

www.standard.co.uk

 

[jcdenton08]

True, and making millions doing it. Power, greed and money are their motivations.

I am not a Party member, nor have I voted for Labour for many years, but this is quite easy to find.

Starmer visits Ukraine to pledge continued commitment to Kyiv if he becomes PM

The Labour leader visited suburbs of Kyiv which saw heavy fighting and alleged war crimes in the opening months of the Russian invasion

www.standard.co.uk

Thanks, but struggling to find anything on Trident. Will wait for the manifesto!

 

[Machiavelli]

Question for Labour Party member friends here. What are new new Labour’s views on defence? Namely Ukraine/Russia then also on Trident?

I'm a member of a different party to Labour and, probably, you. My suggestion is that you look up the Labour Party's website, and follow the utterances of David Lammy in order to get the answer to your question.

 

[jcdenton08]

I'm a member of a different party to Labour and, probably, you. My suggestion is that you look up the Labour Party's website, and follow the utterances of David Lammy in order to get the answer to your question.

Oh I’m not a member of any political party - in fact I’ve not voted for the same one twice in a row, but thanks for the tip.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Suella Braverman accused of rule breach over ‘blob of civil servants’ email​

Call for ministerial code inquiry over message blaming civil servants for failure to stop Channel crossings




Suella Braverman has been accused of potentially breaking ministerial rules by questioning the impartiality of public servants over small boat crossings in a Conservative campaign message.
In an email to thousands of Tory supporters, the home secretary blamed “an activist blob of leftwing lawyers, civil servants and the Labour party” for the government’s failure to stop Channel crossings.

 

[GJN1]

I don’t think Lineker has done anything wrong either. It’s a non-story. Nobody is completely unbiased in their views and he hasn’t said anything inflammatory.

Was just pointing out that Andrew Neil on the BBC at least was always scrupulously fair and clearly took his job seriously.

Richard Sharp, BBC Chairman, donated over £440k to the Tories and helped facilitate an £800k loan to Boris Johnson.
Tim Davie, BBC Director General, former Conservative Party council candidate and deputy chair of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative Party.
Robbie Gibb, BBC Board Member, Theresa May's Director of Communications at No10, brother of Tory minister Nick Gibb, not one of the Bee Gees.

Gary Lineker - stick to football mate.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Question for Labour Party member friends here. What are new new Labour’s views on defence? Namely Ukraine/Russia then also on Trident?

Labour has been and will continue to be pro-trident

 

[The Fits]

Starting on nurses and then Gary Linekar is certainly choosing odd enemies. Typically today though two old men in one of my pubs were very much parroting the 'how dare he comment on politics' line. Don't think it will fool many this time though.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I haven't visited this thread for month's - nothing's changed!

Gary Lineker is again is a hero by comparing the governments immigration strategy to that of the Nazi's in the 1930's .

If you are honest, if you are intelligent, if you are young or old and wise, if you pride yourself in wanting the truth - get yourself a copy of Thames Televisions 1970's acclaimed series "The World at War". Every episode is extraordinary but in the context of Gary's claim three episodes stand out -

"A New Germany (1933–1939)"

"The final solution Part One"

"The final solution Part Two"

You will see real evidence of the absolute depravity of human begins - you will see total hatred, humiliation, the destruction of civilization whipped up by mind-blowing propaganda - you will see the actual footage and stupefyingly horrific murder of men, women and children - not acted - real footage - with survivors harrowing interviews and on a scale utterly, utterly inconceivable.

If you do this, you will view poor old Gary with sympathy and sadness!

The World at War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Looking at the detail and implications of Linekar’s comments, I’m sure there is plenty of evidence of what he has described.

The language and actions of the Nazis changed quite profoundly from in the 30’s. It’s about the slippery slope. If this language is acceptable now, what will the future look like. Let’s remember, Hitler initially got his support from uneducated oaths. People willing to intimidate and beat people up for him because they had little other skills or prospects. He knew, like this government, that nationalism is the key to the heart of the most stupid in society.

I took Linekar’s tweet to reference that the Nazi’s used similar language in the the early 30’s, so look what happened there eventually. He was describing a path of direction not a current reality. This subtly is sadly lost on so many.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You do wonder how Andrew Neil got away with being a political anchor on the Beeb for all those years whilst simultaneously being Chair of the Spectator magazine. Food for thought....

And Lord Sugar presenting The Apprentice whilst tweeting his political views?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I haven't visited this thread for month's - nothing's changed!

Gary Lineker is again is a hero by comparing the governments immigration strategy to that of the Nazi's in the 1930's .

If you are honest, if you are intelligent, if you are young or old and wise, if you pride yourself in wanting the truth - get yourself a copy of Thames Televisions 1970's acclaimed series "The World at War". Every episode is extraordinary but in the context of Gary's claim three episodes stand out -

"A New Germany (1933–1939)"

"The final solution Part One"

"The final solution Part Two"

You will see real evidence of the absolute depravity of human begins - you will see total hatred, humiliation, the destruction of civilization whipped up by mind-blowing propaganda - you will see the actual footage and stupefyingly horrific murder of men, women and children - not acted - real footage - with survivors harrowing interviews and on a scale utterly, utterly inconceivable.

If you do this, you will view poor old Gary with sympathy and sadness!

The World at War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Point of order, Gary Lineker never mentioned the Nazis.

He compared the language of dehumanising of refugees to that of Germany in the 1930s,

 

[nicko31]

Looking at the detail and implications of Linekar’s comments, I’m sure there is plenty of evidence of what he has described.

The language and actions of the Nazis changed quite profoundly from in the 30’s. It’s about the slippery slope. If this language is acceptable now, what will the future look like. Let’s remember, Hitler initially got his support from uneducated oaths. People willing to intimidate and beat people up for him because they had little other skills or prospects. He knew, like this government, that nationalism is the key to the heart of the most stupid in society.

I took Linekar’s tweet to reference that the Nazi’s used similar language in the the early 30’s, so look what happened there eventually. He was describing a path of direction not a current reality. This subtly is sadly lost on so many.

A reminder fascism also arrives in disguise, promising to restore your honour, make you feel proud, protect your house, give you a job, clean up the neighbourhood and more...

Fascism: I sometimes fear...

I sometimes fear that people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress worn by grotesques and monsters as played out in endless re-...

michaelrosenblog.blogspot.com

 

[BBassic]

It's odd how people trot out the "stay out of politics" line when it's about something pretty shady.

"Stay out of politics Marcus, those kids don't need feeding"
"Stay out of politics Gary, those dirty foreigners are all criminals"

 

[Randy McNob]

A manifesto sets out what a party will do in government. Labour published their manifesto stating they would "respect the Brexit referendum result. When it came to the hustings, there was no coherent policy supported by all members of the party, or indeed the MPs / candidates. Ask a Labour MP or candidate "what is your policy on Europe / Brexit?" and you got a different answer every time

The Tories had an advantage as they had already formed a Brexit government prior to the 2019 election. They had to push all the fence sitters and remainers into the shadows. No one knew what the future would entail so by getting a mixed bag of answers is just a matter of honesty, better than electing a bunch of liars just jumping on a bandwagon to win power