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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...



beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,303
Are you familiar with what happens in negotiations between unions and employers?
Note, it's a rhetorical question, because you are, but this post suggests either that you're not, that you're simply parroting Tory mantra or, now slightly differently, that you're just repeating what the highly credible IEA pumps out.
did you reply to the wrong post? i didnt mention negotiations. i'm talking about how we fund a pay rise, using a windfull tax is the worst option as by definition its temporary. and its already spent elsewhere. we need tax rises to fund pay increases, and the last rise was roundly rejected by everyone.
 




Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,923
Central Borneo / the Lizard
how do you pay the salary increase when the windfall doesn't apply? windfall taxes must not be used to supplement general spending. we could have a pool of money for more healthcare pay, the social care levy (NI), everyone complained and its gone. if nurses are to have a 17% rise thats going to be £5bn or so, we need a penny on income tax to cover that.
Everyone complained? Arguably best thing Boris did. Labour front bench said they'd find other ways to pay for it, other than that the only people i saw complaining were Truss and Kwarteng.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,303
Everyone complained? Arguably best thing Boris did. Labour front bench said they'd find other ways to pay for it, other than that the only people i saw complaining were Truss and Kwarteng.
it was one good policy, opposition complained about it for about a year, before it was introduced. they even tabled a vote against it. no alternative offered yet.
 


St Leonards Seagull

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2012
546

I just can’t understand this lot, I’m utterly dumbfounded each time they open their mouths.
Shows utter contempt towards NHS staff and people struggling to get by.
They take no responsibility whatsoever for the mess we are in. They have destroyed morale in the NHS over the last 12 years. It’s not just the last 4 years.
I’m sure people will still blindly defend them though, even though they’re clearly taking the piss.
Still, at least this charlatans horses are warm. 😡
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,923
Central Borneo / the Lizard
it was one good policy, opposition complained about it for about a year, before it was introduced. they even tabled a vote against it.

They did. Not really going to defend them them much on this particular issue, just they have said they would fund it, but not through personal taxes.

They say that about many things though, but windfall taxes and nondom taxes will only get us so far. Still, I expect the economy will start performing better once Labour are in, like it did last time they got into power, so that should start generating more tax revenue
 
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Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,647
Fiveways
did you reply to the wrong post? i didnt mention negotiations. i'm talking about how we fund a pay rise, using a windfull tax is the worst option as by definition its temporary. and its already spent elsewhere. we need tax rises to fund pay increases, and the last rise was roundly rejected by everyone.
No, I didn't. You parroted the line from the Tories that the RCN have demanded 17% strongly implying that they won't manoeuvre from that position. In reality, this dispute will be resolved with a pay increase lower than that but higher than the initial offer made (and, probably, further conditions to repair the damage done to their working arrangements).

If the nurses get a pay 'increase', it'll be a paltry one in real terms. You seem to be neglecting this too: their real terms pay has decreased substantially over the past decade. And this is one of the reasons why the NHS -- like so much else in this country -- is in crisis. Target tax rises on assets to pay for this alongside stopping the attacks on other public sector workers and other such services that are falling apart after 12 years of attacks from the Tories.

Beyond Brexit and leaving the public finances and public services in crisis, what else have this lot achieved in the past 12 years? (fwiw, I think they got most of the decisions right on covid -- the wrong ones were awful preparation, and slow to lockdown on a couple of occasions).
 
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beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,303
No, I didn't. You parroted the line from the Tories that the RCN have demanded 17% strongly implying that they won't manoeuvre from that position. In reality, this dispute will be resolved with a pay increase lower than that but higher than the initial offer made (and, probably, further conditions to repair the damage done to their working arrangements).
i see your point. though the RCN have previously stated they're asking for 5% above inflation, so a target number would seem to be around that.
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,575
Gods country fortnightly
Looks like Hancock stepping down at the next election, I'm shocked
 












sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
12,504
Hove
Inflation is due to fall soon when some bad figures work their way out of the calculation.

I can't see the Government settling any of these pay disputes until it does - when their pay offer will be compared against a more favourable inflation rate.

By the same token it's no surprise that a lot of pay claims are been made at a point when the inflation figure is so high - why wait until it has fallen to say 6% ?

That said, General Election now please, and reboot the country.
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,575
Gods country fortnightly
Julian Knight, suspended and whip removed following a complaint to the Met police.
Five Tory MPs are currently suspended.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63897387
Its never ending. If you took a random 350 members would you find so many dubious characters.

If Labour get in they need to seriously clean up politics across the board, we need to have faith restored in our democracy.
 






dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,189
Its never ending. If you took a random 350 members would you find so many dubious characters.

If Labour get in they need to seriously clean up politics across the board, we need to have faith restored in our democracy.
I hope they do. They have already expelled the 7 Labour MPs who received jail sentences during the 12 years of Tory rule, so that's 7 less rotten apples that won't be corrupting the party.
 


Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
4,899
Mid Sussex
I hope they do. They have already expelled the 7 Labour MPs who received jail sentences during the 12 years of Tory rule, so that's 7 less rotten apples that won't be corrupting the party.
What’s the count for the other major parties? Just so we can be fair an equitable about this.
Personally, if its a sackable offence in a normal job then it should be the same in parliament. Automatic deselection and then by-election.
 


lawros left foot

Glory hunting since 1969
Jun 11, 2011
13,720
Worthing
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Stolen from Twitter.
 






BenGarfield

Active member
Feb 22, 2019
308
crawley
No, I didn't. You parroted the line from the Tories that the RCN have demanded 17% strongly implying that they won't manoeuvre from that position. In reality, this dispute will be resolved with a pay increase lower than that but higher than the initial offer made (and, probably, further conditions to repair the damage done to their working arrangements).

If the nurses get a pay 'increase', it'll be a paltry one in real terms. You seem to be neglecting this too: their real terms pay has decreased substantially over the past decade. And this is one of the reasons why the NHS -- like so much else in this country -- is in crisis. Target tax rises on assets to pay for this alongside stopping the attacks on other public sector workers and other such services that are falling apart after 12 years of attacks from the Tories.

Beyond Brexit and leaving the public finances and public services in crisis, what else have this lot achieved in the past 12 years? (fwiw, I think they got most of the decisions right on covid -- the wrong ones were awful preparation, and slow to lockdown on a couple of occasions).
Yes they`ve been rubbish at maintaining and improving public services unsurprisingly as that conforms to their anti state neo liberism. However, in what way do you think the public finances are in "crisis"? Also I disagree about lockdown. Sweden`s limited covid preventative policies have proved far more successful and were in line with exisiting more rational evidence based international pandemic guidelines.
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
21,617
Brighton
Under Blair and Brown, Labour made two devastating mistakes. 1. Iraqi war. 2. Not have it enough regulation the banking industry.

Cameron got in on the back of point 2. Now the Tories want to deregulate bankers again. Another financial crash will surely follow at some point.
 


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