[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Hotchilidog]

Just because we have a rubbish government, doesn’t mean the other options at the time would’ve been more successful. Under Cameron it was comparative halcyon days compared to what we’ve got now. If you’re thinking of a snarky reply to that, I direct you to re-read the word “comparative” again.

This election it’s a clear cut choice, get a terrible, deeply unpopular government out and a steady, moderate leader of the a moderate opposition into government.

No more right wing nutters, no left wing nutters to replace them. Finally some calm, boring and grey stability for the next decade please as we try and rebuild our economy and national image.

Clearly you weren't a victim of austerity then. Cameron's govt was extremely damaging he just put a friendlier spin on it.

 

[chickens]

Labour really need to start laying into the Tory’s now and highlighting their manifold failures.
Really start hammering it home.

The odd shaky attempt at humour by Starmer at PMQ’s ain’t gonna cut it.

Go for the jugular. Destroy the ****s.

Why? They’re doing such a great job all by themselves.

I have real respect for him keeping his powder dry. Save it for the election campaign.

 

[The Clamp]

Why? They’re doing such a great job all by themselves.

I have real respect for him keeping his powder dry. Save it for the election campaign.

Why? Because people have very, very short memories. Labour need to be highlighting the Tory’s criminality and corruption in a sustained and continuous fashion.

 

[chickens]

Clearly you weren't a victim of austerity then. Cameron's govt was extremely damaging he just put a friendlier spin on it.

I think the reason the Cameron/Osborne axis gets something of a free ride, is that austerity cut in gradually. You got ‘boiling frog’ syndrome where the cuts got slightly worse year on year, and weren’t immediately noticed, rather like frogs being boiled don’t immediately notice that the water they’re swimming in is becoming uncomfortably warm.

However, the fact that Osborne/Cameron were more competent and successful at effectively gutting the country’s support structures and bringing forward all that follows does not render them a free pass in my book. To my mind the opposite applies and they require the greatest censure of all.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I think the reason the Cameron/Osborne axis gets something of a free ride, is that austerity cut in gradually. You got ‘boiling frog’ syndrome where the cuts got slightly worse year on year, and weren’t immediately noticed, rather like frogs being boiled don’t immediately notice that the water they’re swimming in is becoming uncomfortably warm.

However, the fact that Osborne/Cameron were more competent and successful at effectively gutting the country’s support structures and bringing forward all that follows does not render them a free pass in my book. To my mind the opposite applies and they require the greatest censure of all.

Absolutely agree

 

[chickens]

Why? Because people have very, very short memories. Labour need to be highlighting the Tory’s criminality and corruption in a sustained and continuous fashion.

Respectfully I disagree. Remember that in trying to get elected, Labour have to appeal to the swing voter, not the committed Labour voter.

One of the big turnoffs for Conservative voters regarding Labour is that Labour activists frequently seem angry, shouty and rude. That actually plays a bigger part in where people choose to put their ‘X’ than many appreciate.

Shouting “Tory c**ts” and constant criticism plays brilliantly with Wolfie Smith and his chums, but understandably puts off plenty of decent people who prefer their politics conducted in measured tones.

The Conservatives have performed many underhand acts during their time in power, but they have been able to bring decent people along with them because they’ve spoken well, smiled at the right times and effectively seemed “our kind of people.” A lesson that Labour have been slow to learn.

Constant criticism of the Conservative Party assists those who want to paint Labour as a party that complains that everything’s wrong but has no idea what to do about it.

The correct course of action for Labour is: Wait for the election campaign, have solid costed plans of their own, and point to the incumbent government’s record over the last thirteen years. The rest is just noise and activists point scoring on Twitter like that has any meaning.

 

[Stato]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce the member for Don Valley

He's right that Housing is a problem, he's right that people are struggling, he's right that the waiting lists in A&E are unacceptable, he's right that schools are at breaking point.

Blaming this on immigration and taking no responsiblity when his party has been in charge of housing policy, the economy, the NHS and education for over a decade is absolutely pathetic.

No, I won't call you a racist Nick. You'd like that because it might get you a job on GB News. Instead I'll call you what you are: A Failure.

Your ideas don't work, your ideology is a dead end, your priorities are wrong. You don't seem to understand that you are the MP for everyone in your constituency, not just the ones that you choose to champion. In playing divide and conquer you have failed all of them. They know this and that is why polling gives you a 3% chance of retaining your seat at the next election: https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Don Valley.

Enjoy GB News. Hopefully you'll be replaced by someone who wants to make this country a better place to live for everybody who is here.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce the member for Don Valley

The most recent figures I can find is Dec 2022 for Doncaster Royal Infirmary.

Patients waited an average of five hours and 32 minutes to be either admitted to an inpatient ward, transferred elsewhere or discharged from hospital.


Meanwhile, the shortest waits were between 9am and 10am on Thursdays, when patients waited an average of two hours and 29 minutes.

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/health/these-are-the-busiest-times-of-the-week-at-doncaster-and-bassetlaw-teaching-hospitals-trust-ae-3952589

I went to Doncaster for a weekend at the end of August, for a friend's Diamond Wedding anniversary. We had a river trip on the Don. He is talking out of the back of his neck.
He is the first Tory to be elected to this area, with a small 3K majority. I suspect he will be out of work at the next election.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce the member for Don Valley

The sooner we can flush these turds, the better.

 

[The Clamp]

Respectfully I disagree. Remember that in trying to get elected, Labour have to appeal to the swing voter, not the committed Labour voter.

One of the big turnoffs for Conservative voters regarding Labour is that Labour activists frequently seem angry, shouty and rude. That actually plays a bigger part in where people choose to put their ‘X’ than many appreciate.

Shouting “Tory c**ts” and constant criticism plays brilliantly with Wolfie Smith and his chums, but understandably puts off plenty of decent people who prefer their politics conducted in measured tones.

The Conservatives have performed many underhand acts during their time in power, but they have been able to bring decent people along with them because they’ve spoken well, smiled at the right times and effectively seemed “our kind of people.” A lesson that Labour have been slow to learn.

Constant criticism of the Conservative Party assists those who want to paint Labour as a party that complains that everything’s wrong but has no idea what to do about it.

The correct course of action for Labour is: Wait for the election campaign, have solid costed plans of their own, and point to the incumbent government’s record over the last thirteen years. The rest is just noise and activists point scoring on Twitter like that has any meaning.

I’m not talking about calling them names. More pointing out their failures. Repeatedly.

But yes, I get and largely agree with your viewpoint.

 

[jcdenton08]

Respectfully I disagree. Remember that in trying to get elected, Labour have to appeal to the swing voter, not the committed Labour voter.

One of the big turnoffs for Conservative voters regarding Labour is that Labour activists frequently seem angry, shouty and rude. That actually plays a bigger part in where people choose to put their ‘X’ than many appreciate.

Shouting “Tory c**ts” and constant criticism plays brilliantly with Wolfie Smith and his chums, but understandably puts off plenty of decent people who prefer their politics conducted in measured tones.

The Conservatives have performed many underhand acts during their time in power, but they have been able to bring decent people along with them because they’ve spoken well, smiled at the right times and effectively seemed “our kind of people.” A lesson that Labour have been slow to learn.

Constant criticism of the Conservative Party assists those who want to paint Labour as a party that complains that everything’s wrong but has no idea what to do about it.

The correct course of action for Labour is: Wait for the election campaign, have solid costed plans of their own, and point to the incumbent government’s record over the last thirteen years. The rest is just noise and activists point scoring on Twitter like that has any meaning.

Beautifully put.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think the reason the Cameron/Osborne axis gets something of a free ride, is that austerity cut in gradually. You got ‘boiling frog’ syndrome where the cuts got slightly worse year on year, and weren’t immediately noticed, rather like frogs being boiled don’t immediately notice that the water they’re swimming in is becoming uncomfortably warm.

However, the fact that Osborne/Cameron were more competent and successful at effectively gutting the country’s support structures and bringing forward all that follows does not render them a free pass in my book. To my mind the opposite applies and they require the greatest censure of all.

Cameron thought the way to deal with the right wing in his party was to offer an advisory referendum (all referenda in Britain are advisory only) and then ran away when it went wrong. He is a coward who has now shown he can be bought with a title.

 

[jcdenton08]

I’m not talking about calling them names. More pointing out their failures. Repeatedly.

But yes, I get and largely agree with your viewpoint.

Oh he will, but to quote that oft-repeated phrase he’s keeping his powder dry.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce the member for Don Valley

Just read his Wikipedia.

Member of the common sense group. Thinks that young men are turning to crime because the BBC cast a woman as Dr. Who.

 

[The Clamp]

I suppose I’m just concerned that the Tory’s won’t get properly pulled up on their behaviour. They never seem to be.
They get away with so much.

Labour can’t afford to give them the soft treatment.

There’s enough of that from inquiry boards, the British press, the police, the electorate, and their victims.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

must be under a rock or in denial, immigration has been a significant political issue for decades. for a large minority it is used as an excuse for many other problems, even if it doesn't directly affect them. being seen to do something becomes important, even if the underlying problem cant be resolved.

No I’m quite aware of immigration being blamed on everything from a lack of employment opportunities and housing to lack of lavatory paper in supermarkets.

My curiosity is with this particular policy and the amount spent on it already with nothing to show for it and how they think that is going to play out with voters and/or potential voters.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Just because we have a rubbish government, doesn’t mean the other options at the time would’ve been more successful. Under Cameron it was comparative halcyon days compared to what we’ve got now. If you’re thinking of a snarky reply to that, I direct you to re-read the word “comparative” again.

This election it’s a clear cut choice, get a terrible, deeply unpopular government out and a steady, moderate leader of the a moderate opposition into government.

No more right wing nutters, no left wing nutters to replace them. Finally some calm, boring and grey stability for the next decade please as we try and rebuild our economy and national image.

Apart from candidates for West Chalfont shouting: 'You are a bloody shit! You're a bloody, buggering, shitting buggerhead!' obviously.

 

[jcdenton08]

I suppose I’m just concerned that the Tory’s won’t get properly pulled up on their behaviour. They never seem to be.
They get away with so much.

Labour can’t afford to give them the soft treatment.

There’s enough of that from inquiry boards, the British press, the police, the electorate, and their victims.

We’re a long way from an election. Gung-ho isn’t going to be his style, prepare yourself for that.

Think of it this way (I know it’s hard because I know how strong your feelings are politically, and I’m not meaning to be patronising):

Labour’s job in the election campaign is to convince a very large number of people who voted Tory last time out to switch and vote for them.

They could do this by constantly attacking everything about the Tories, or they could do it by talking about what they offer instead.

The first option is good for consolidating already baked-in views, reaffirming those who already are going for you. Preaching to the choir. It’s a horrible tactic for winning swing votes, because you’re attacking them. You’re saying it’s all their fault. You’re saying they’re wrong.

Who likes being told they’re wrong, that they’re an idiot for having moderate views which clash with someone opposite? Nobody, whether you’re right, left or centre.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

 

[jcdenton08]

Apart from candidates for West Chalfont shouting: 'You are a bloody shit! You're a bloody, buggering, shitting buggerhead!' obviously.

Well I’ll be voting for Schappsy, he always nails it. He’s dead against… (slapheads!) no, he’s dead against (SLAPHEADS!)

IGNORE HIM!

 

[Jim in the West]

There's a good analysis of the country's concerns about immigration/Rwanda etc on the latest "News Agents" podcast....it includes an interview with a pollster (who's also a former Tory party advisor). I had a look on the pollster's website ( moreincommon.org.uk ), and they include the following poll (see below - it's six months old, but probably still pretty relevant). You can access the raw data, and - inevitably - the people who are most concerned about small boats are the elderly (40% put it in their top 3 concerns) and Tory voters (39% put it in their top 3....no doubt the two categories are almost entirely the same people). Geographically, it's also those in the East of England and the North East who are most concerned, whilst Londoners are least concerned (only 14% put it in their top 3)