Tipping in restaurants

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I've got a friend who always questions the tipping situation of any restaurant and refuses to pay any service if the money goes to the restaurant and not the waiter.

I'd question your friend's attitude. The waiter/waitress brings the food out. The hard graft - and equally what you base your tip on - is the quality of the food. And that's down to the people doing the hard graft in the kitchen. Who you'll never usually see.

On the whole, I'd say the money going to the restaurant is fairer - assuming they have a policy of divvying it up among the staff you see and the staff you don't see.

 

[beorhthelm]

its not for nothing - do you honestly think that the projected income from this charge is not factored in by accountants, .

so put it up front on the prices in the first place then. or... maybe assume that they have done so... so tipping is extra on top... oh look.

 

[The Spanish]

so put it up front on the prices in the first place then. or... maybe assume that they have done so... so tipping is extra on top... oh look.

we are getting nowhere here. you just don't like it, thats understandable. what i find so baffling is the amazement and shock that people are trying to pick your pockets.

why arent people moaning like f*** that a bottle of peroni costs 4 quid in this restaurant and they can get 12 for 8.99 in tescos.

just pay the bill and tip the waiter or f*** off, is my attitude.

you are right though, just make everything 10%. just so it shuts up moaning embarassment-proof bores, if nothing else.

 

[Spun Cuppa]

Just to put a 10% service charge into perspective...

Recently I went to a do in a restaurant for a relatives birthday and as there were lots of people who didn't know each other and different sub-groups, we went separate on the drinks and paid for each pint/bottle of wine separately...

So, a £3.60 pint became £3.96 and a £13 bottle of wine became £14.30...

When you do it like that it makes you think...

At the end, when we'd paid for the food (again subject to 10% service charge), someone said, 'What about the tip?...' Cue general mirth

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'd question your friend's attitude. The waiter/waitress brings the food out. The hard graft - and equally what you base your tip on - is the quality of the food. And that's down to the people doing the hard graft in the kitchen. Who you'll never usually see.

On the whole, I'd say the money going to the restaurant is fairer - assuming they have a policy of divvying it up among the staff you see and the staff you don't see.

I posted this in the context of the link. Maybe I was not being clear enough.

The issue is that restaurants are using the money to top up salaries, often to the minimum wage i.e. the amount of money which they should legally be paying the staff in the first place. It is a way of by-passing the minimum wage and in my opinion this is very wrong.

"Waiters working for high-street chain Carluccio's, for instance, receive £3.75 per hour, plus three-quarters of tips left by customers on debit or credit cards to top their pay up to the minimum wage. "

The staff should be paid the minimum wage in the first place, and any tip is on top of their salary; not a component of their salary.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/jun/07/waiters-tips-restaurants-minimum-wage

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'd question your friend's attitude. The waiter/waitress brings the food out. The hard graft - and equally what you base your tip on - is the quality of the food. And that's down to the people doing the hard graft in the kitchen. Who you'll never usually see.

I do not dispute this at all.

 

[beorhthelm]

you just don't like it, thats understandable. what i find so baffling is the amazement and shock that people are trying to pick your pockets.

why arent people moaning like f*** that a bottle of peroni costs 4 quid in this restaurant and they can get 12 for 8.99 in tescos.

it's not about disliking it, rather your attitude that if one doesnt agree with it, its because they are tight arses. i do tip, but i dont as much anymore since the minimum wage as theres no good reason. and yes, actually i do moan about overpriced drinks, in fact its one of the reasons i eat out less than i could.

and you seem to have missed the whole point, that tips for service have been abused for too long by owners, something which is a good reason to not tip or tip in cash only.

So, a £3.60 pint became £3.96 and a £13 bottle of wine became £14.30...

i really do object to tipping on value of drinks and dont.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

"Waiters working for high-street chain Carluccio's, for instance, receive £3.75 per hour, plus three-quarters of tips left by customers on debit or credit cards to top their pay up to the minimum wage. "

Does that mean that any tips that exceed the amount needed to top their pay up to the minimum wage are just trousered by Signor Carluccio?

And what will happen to the debit card / credit card tips after 1 October, when the existing practice becomes illegal?

 

[Goring Gull]

I think you should only tip when the service is especially good. Why reward someone for doing what they are paid to do? They need to go the extra mile. It's a bit like performance related pay.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I think you should only tip when the service is especially good. Why reward someone for doing what they are paid to do?

Because some of them are only paid £3.75 an hour.

It's a miracle that you get any sort of service at all.

 

[Mackenzie]

I'd question your friend's attitude. The waiter/waitress brings the food out. The hard graft - and equally what you base your tip on - is the quality of the food. And that's down to the people doing the hard graft in the kitchen. Who you'll never usually see.

On the whole, I'd say the money going to the restaurant is fairer - assuming they have a policy of divvying it up among the staff you see and the staff you don't see.

I agree with this. What we do is collect all the tips until it reaches a certain amount (usually £1000) and share out the money according to how many shifts you have done since the last share out....the money is split between the bar staff, waitresses, washeruppers and cooks. This system works for us.

 

[SICKASAGULL]

I make a point of giving the waiter a 10% cash tip, also not happy to pay a service charge on a bottle of wine,particularly when they charge £13 + for a wine which I can buy for £5.99

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree with this. What we do is collect all the tips until it reaches a certain amount (usually £1000) and share out the money according to how many shifts you have done since the last share out....the money is split between the bar staff, waitresses, washeruppers and cooks. This system works for us.

But do you pay the minimum wage before any tips are considered? This is where my friends gripe comes from.

 

[Mackenzie]

But do you pay the minimum wage before any tips are considered? This is where my friends gripe comes from.

We pay more than minimum wage, tips are considered a most welcome extra.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We pay more than minimum wage, tips are considered a most welcome extra.

Good on you. And this is the way it should be with tips...a welcome extra and not used to top up pay to the minimum wage.

 

[Gully]

I agree with this. What we do is collect all the tips until it reaches a certain amount (usually £1000) and share out the money according to how many shifts you have done since the last share out....the money is split between the bar staff, waitresses, washeruppers and cooks. This system works for us.

I wish I had worked for you when I first left school and not the shysters at the place I did, who paid a pittance, and kept tips and passed nothing onto the waiters...I only worked there for six months or so, but that job taught me more about working relationships and management than just about any I have had since.

(I should add that at the time I started my working life there were approaching 4m people on the dole and I was greatful to have a job...the only problem was that management knew that and treated their staff accordingly at times)

 

[BigGully]

hahaha you are just talking bitter nonsense. how wealthy do restaurant owners need to be before you pay a service charge? what criteria do you have? what about a struggling local restauarant who decides to charge it?

This is my point. How people get all exciteable and uncomfortable with capitalism in restaurants, but happily pay crap made up airline taxes and surcharges, get overcharged massively for all sorts of goods and services, and take it up the arse. but when they get a chance to make a scene in a restaurant, embarass someone on a low wage and probably make the rest of the restaurant think they are a cnt, they leap at it.

how wealthy do the wealthy owners you refer to have to be? I am not sure you fully understand who runs chain restaurants (the 'owners' will be venture capitalists, banks and shareholders, most probably, and if you have a pension fund, it may well be you yourself without you knowing it).

If your local struggling but great restaurant needed to up its income by 10%, would you tell them to stick it? I get the feeling, judging by the petty meanness on this thread, the answer would be yes.

How naive can you get ......

Any struggling business, restaurant or otherwise would like to increase their income by 10% whether that would save them or not.

The debate here is it is a deserved charge and should the customer somehow feel obliged so obviously and personally to pay a charge above and beyond the service expected.

Your example that this is capitalism at work is inaccurate.

Its a 'chancers' tax, fullstop.

Any self respecting capitalist would offer a service that offers a product and a service that is then offered at a price that us the customer feels reflects value for money.

You can hardly buy a plate of food for less than a tenner and a drink for less than four quid in any of these eateries and the added charge is not for the waiter but for the greedy owner who ignored the worth of his/hers employee in the first place.

It is a practise that has been imported from USA who offer a bigger plate of food and the same drink for half the price than is delivered here and the overall cost after a 'gratuity' still offers genuine value of money.

That my friend is why restaurants will close and people will seek out better value elsewhere, THAT is capitalism.

So you keep paying the 10, 15 or 20% you feel so obliged to do, because I promise you, your favourite greedy restaurant will be closed very soon, that is real capitalism.

 

[desprateseagull]

The whole idea of restaurants, I thought, was to be served food and drink- charging extra from the privilege imo is taking the pee-

do the staff (waiters AND kitchen bods) get this? I doubt it..

not sure what the law is on s/c, but tend to steer clear of places that add this- especially when set at more than 10%..

if owners cant affordto pay min wage, then their business plan sucks, and they deserve to go under!

 

[looney]

Are you aware that the rules on the National Minimum Wage currently allow restaurants to get away with including tips in the wage that is actually paid?

In your example, with tips coming in at the rate of £8 an hour, the employer can get away with paying a wage of ... precisely nothing.

This will change ... on 1 October 2009. And not before time.

Is the correct answer.

The change in the law was brought in because coffee chains were doing it as standard practise, ie costa coffee, cafe nerd etc.


The threat of joblosses in a highly labour intensive sector tends to be scare mongering.

Businesses may fold due to high rents, recession etc but thats a different issue.