Tipping in restaurants

[BigGully]

f***ing tight *****. I expect everyone on here who gets all principled about a 10% service charge, or goes, 'i only tip on service' is happily fleeced in every other walk of life. its the being a bit drunk on the power of tipping that makes me laugh.

waiters are just doing a job, they are not f***ing prossies. why you expect them to suck you off for a 5 quid tip when you are just some average bod yourself, is beyond me. yes its a shit job but most peoples are.

a tip is just good form, if you dont want to pay a service charge dont go to the restaurant if you have strong feelings about it. surely boycotting the places that do is far more useful than making a cnt of yourself in the restaurant.

i f***ing hate this debate. just pay it, give the waiter a little tip like a proper chap and not some arse, or dont go there.

I bet these same naysayers get mugged every day by other firms and services, and do not crack a note. its all a bit bullyish this debate.

You have missed the point by a country mile.

I would suspect that the waiters/waitresses job is similiar to 1000's of jobs out there and they should all be paid a reasonable wage.

The debate is not against the waiter that may or may not work his ass off, thats irrelevant.

Its a debate against the CEO's of big companies and the many owners that feel that the customer should in someway subsidise his business, beyond the normal business relationship of customer and business.

Next time you pop into the many established restaurants you just try and work out who the owners are, shall I tell you

They are the guys with the biggest cars, cigars and houses in the town.

Good for them, but why oh why I should somehow need to subsidise their staff ahead of them maybe paying a reasonable wage in the first instance is the debate at present.

 

[beorhthelm]

f***ing tight *****. ....

really? care to explain why waiters should be tipped in the first place? once apon a time it was a poorly paid job, but with minimum wage thats no longer the case. do you consider to tip the check out girl? the car mechanic? the guy at the wine shop that recommends a particular bottle?

the waiter is paid to provide a polite and efficient service, and good ones at good resturants probably get paid a good wage too. so why is there an expectation to pay them additionally for doing their job? shouldn't it only be for exceptional service?

 

[Dave the OAP]

You have missed the point by a country mile.

I would suspect that the waiters/waitresses job is similiar to 1000's of jobs out there and they should all be paid a reasonable wage.

The debate is not against the waiter that may or may not work his ass off, thats irrelevant.

Its a debate against the CEO's of big companies and the many owners that feel that the customer should in someway subsidise his business, beyond the normal business relationship of customer and business.

Next time you pop into the many established restaurants you just try and work out who the owners are, shall I tell you

They are the guys with the biggest cars, cigars and houses in the town.

Good for them, but why oh why I should somehow need to subsidise their staff ahead of them maybe paying a reasonable wage in the first instance is the debate at present.

Is that your view or are you representing the views of the council, Mr Councillor?

 

[The Spanish]

really? care to explain why waiters should be tipped in the first place? once apon a time it was a poorly paid job, but with minimum wage thats no longer the case. do you consider to tip the check out girl? the car mechanic? the guy at the wine shop that recommends a particular bottle?

the waiter is paid to provide a polite and efficient service, and good ones at good resturants probably get paid a good wage too. so why is there an expectation to pay them additionally for doing their job? shouldn't it only be for exceptional service?

Right BigGully first:

what a load of rubbish. Of course I can grasp that venture capitalists and large companies run restaurants - begs the question - why are you eating in them if you find them so morally dubious? Bit unimaginitive and herd-like isnt it? Also, plenty of owner run restaurants charge a service charge now - so what is your point - you would take it off in Nandos but not the charming little trattoria down the road?

Now the other fella:

its just tradition and The Done Thing, do you know how mean you sound? You dont need to compare it with other jobs, or apply some logic to it. You cannot justify being tight that way. Its nice not to have to relentlessly apply logic to life.

Traditions do not need to be logical. I am sure you would not mind this little tradition and think it nice, if it did not actually hit you in the pocket.

 

[beorhthelm]

Now the other fella:

its just tradition and The Done Thing, do you know how mean you sound? You dont need to compare it with other jobs, or apply some logic to it. You cannot justify being tight that way. Its nice not to have to relentlessly apply logic to life.

Traditions do not need to be logical. I am sure you would not mind this little tradition and think it nice, if it did not actually hit you in the pocket.

it was the done thing when waiters and waitresses got £2/hr and relied on tips to make it worthwhile. times change. the whole point of this debate was that with card payment nowadays more often than not your tip wasnt even going to the waiter/ess but to the owner, who would use it to pay the wages... pick the tradition out of that.

 

[BigGully]

Right Gully first:

what a load of rubbish. Of course I can grasp that venture capitalists and large companies run restaurants - begs the question - why are you eating in them if you find them so morally dubious? Bit unimaginitive and herd-like isnt it? Also, plenty of owner run restaurants charge a service charge now - so what is your point - you would take it off in Nandos but not the charming little trattoria down the road?

Now the other fella:

its just tradition and The Done Thing, do you know how mean you sound? You dont need to compare it with other jobs, or apply some logic to it. You cannot justify being tight that way. Its nice not to have to relentlessly apply logic to life.

Traditions do not need to be logical. I am sure you would not mind this little tradition and think it nice, if it did not actually hit you in the pocket.

Jeeeez, your kiddin' me.

What bit of subsidising an already wealthy owners employees you finding so hard to be logical about ??

 

[BigGully]

Is that your view or are you representing the views of the council, Mr Councillor?

Eh............surely it would all be on expenses if I was this hilarious Councillor jibe, so wouldnt care......now got anything to add ??

 

[Dave the OAP]

Eh............surely it would all be on expenses if I was this hilarious Councillor jibe, so wouldnt care......now got anything to add ??

Not really Mr Councillor...I think you are doing just fine.

carry on

 

[Mackenzie]

I usually tip at 10%, but I think I'm in the minority. I say that because we don't get anything like 10% at my pub, probably somthing like 2-3%.....our service and staff are good as is the food and drink that we serve. It could be that we have a country pub in Wales, and the Welsh arn't always the best at tipping (generally).

Anyway, my take on the whole thing is that a tip shouldn't be a given, you've paid for your meal and you don't need to pay for the staff (the restaurant owners do that) but if the staff have been helpful and prompt (bearing in mind how busy the establishment is) the food good and your feeling generous then tip away.

 

[BensGrandad]

I expect the food and service to be good that is why I go to a particular place to eat or drink. If the staff provide something extra above this expected standard then I tip by leaving cash on the table for them to pocket as opposed to on a card.

What is the legal position could you ask for the service charge to be removed and only pay the menu advertised price.

 

[Long Saulty Seagull]

Mr Pink and his opinion of tipping.

[yt]yHi8P85augw[/yt]

 

[BigGully]

I usually tip at 10%, but I think I'm in the minority. I say that because we don't get anything like 10% at my pub, probably somthing like 2-3%.....our service and staff are good as is the food and drink that we serve. It could be that we have a country pub in Wales, and the Welsh arn't always the best at tipping (generally).

Anyway, my take on the whole thing is that a tip shouldn't be a given, you've paid for your meal and you don't need to pay for the staff (the restaurant owners do that) but if the staff have been helpful and prompt (bearing in mind how busy the establishment is) the food good and your feeling generous then tip away.

Thats fair enough and I am glad that you would expect your staff not to receive a tip.

But I wonder why if you feel that a member of your staff has been particularly helpful, prompt and courteous, which will undoubtedly increase your own revenue/profit, is it not for you to recognise this and pay a rate that would at least be comparable to his/her current hourly rate plus any likely tips rather than quietly accepting passing this burden to any willing customers, many that although themself tip have stated that they feel it is an unfair way to receive a level of expected service.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

pay cash tip, and frankly im less inclinded to pay at all these days when staff are getting £6/hr anyway. get two tables an hour leaving a £4 each, they're earning £14/hr which is nice. I also object to paying a tip on the already massively marked up wine

Are you aware that the rules on the National Minimum Wage currently allow restaurants to get away with including tips in the wage that is actually paid?

In your example, with tips coming in at the rate of £8 an hour, the employer can get away with paying a wage of ... precisely nothing.

This will change ... on 1 October 2009. And not before time.

 

[The Spanish]

Jeeeez, your kiddin' me.

What bit of subsidising an already wealthy owners employees you finding so hard to be logical about ??

hahaha you are just talking bitter nonsense. how wealthy do restaurant owners need to be before you pay a service charge? what criteria do you have? what about a struggling local restauarant who decides to charge it?

This is my point. How people get all exciteable and uncomfortable with capitalism in restaurants, but happily pay crap made up airline taxes and surcharges, get overcharged massively for all sorts of goods and services, and take it up the arse. but when they get a chance to make a scene in a restaurant, embarass someone on a low wage and probably make the rest of the restaurant think they are a cnt, they leap at it.

how wealthy do the wealthy owners you refer to have to be? I am not sure you fully understand who runs chain restaurants (the 'owners' will be venture capitalists, banks and shareholders, most probably, and if you have a pension fund, it may well be you yourself without you knowing it).

If your local struggling but great restaurant needed to up its income by 10%, would you tell them to stick it? I get the feeling, judging by the petty meanness on this thread, the answer would be yes.

 

[auschr]

tipping is stupid

 

[Mackenzie]

Thats fair enough and I am glad that you would expect your staff not to receive a tip.

But I wonder why if you feel that a member of your staff has been particularly helpful, prompt and courteous, which will undoubtedly increase your own revenue/profit, is it not for you to recognise this and pay a rate that would at least be comparable to his/her current hourly rate plus any likely tips rather than quietly accepting passing this burden to any willing customers, many that although themself tip have stated that they feel it is an unfair way to receive a level of expected service.

Our staff are paid very well thankyou, and regard tips as an extra not as their wage.

 

[The Spanish]

Its a debate against the CEO's of big companies and the many owners that feel that the customer should in someway subsidise his business, beyond the normal business relationship of customer and business.

that means absolutely nothing. I agree that that it is sharp practice, but that is commonplace now in all walks of life. Ultimately, profitable companies pay dividends and stay in business, giving the punter what they think they want. By taking a seat in the restaurant you are complicit in that. How they get to the bottom line can take many forms.

I would be amused if any of those who dont pay service charge on principle happily pay £2.50 for a bowl of olives, or bread, then kick up a stink about the service charge at the end.

In reality people like getting 10% off their bill and dressing it up as a principle.

 

[beorhthelm]

Are you aware that the rules on the National Minimum Wage currently allow restaurants to get away with including tips in the wage that is actually paid?

In your example, with tips coming in at the rate of £8 an hour, the employer can get away with paying a wage of ... precisely nothing.

yes im aware, at thats the point isnt it, with the tips becoming no more than another revenue to the owner. i was rather thinking of cash tips.

In reality people like getting 10% off their bill and dressing it up as a principle.

eh?? but its not 10% off the bill, its 10% added onto the bill for nothing, dressed up as discretionary but expected. you're already paying for the staffing in the markup. and if not... well no wonder so many restrurants go bust if they dont know how to price their product.

 

[The Spanish]

Mr Pink and his opinion of tipping.

[yt]yHi8P85augw[/yt]

yes and they all think he's a cnt too.

 

[The Spanish]

yes im aware, at thats the point isnt it, with the tips becoming no more than another revenue to the owner. i was rather thinking of cash tips.



eh?? but its not 10% off the bill, its 10% added onto the bill for nothing, dressed up as discretionary but expected. you're already paying for the staffing in the markup. and if not... well no wonder so many restrurants go bust if they dont know how to price their product.

its not for nothing - do you honestly think that the projected income from this charge is not factored in by accountants, research done on the percentage of times it is paid, and affects budgeting, in these evil big corporations? .

Most restaurants go bust because they DON'T think about why they are adding it, and see it as free money - or at least they may be guilty of poor planning and management. The smart evil corporate ones will know exactly where that 'free' money will go, I would have thought.