This Global warming climate change thing.

[Kalimantan Gull]

chill out chap! I am not trying to be deliberately confrontational on this issue but there is a legitimate concern and therefore a legitimate right to debate the issue that humans are the dominant cause of climate change.The UN report says it is 95% convinced humans are to blame,other scientists say this is not true...surely this thread is just an extension of that?

Its alright, I'm writing it with a smile on my face, I'm just trying to find another way to get the message across. Cold hard science seems to have failed to win the debate - even though by any logic the debate has been won. But we can carry on arguing about this, thats all the sceptics want anyway because it delays any decisions being made and people can get richer in this lifetime without worrying about those after them.

I'm at the frontline of this, year-after -year I'm mobilising fire-fighting teams to save the largest lowland rainforest in Borneo from fires that are happening every dry season because of extended droughts that have been occurring more and more frequently since 1997 because of climate change. Now people need not care about the 7,000 orangutans that will die, but they should care about the 6,000 km2 of peat-swamp of average depth 8m that is PURE carbon, which if it (and the rest of the peat forests here) go up in smoke will make any debate about the legitimacy of man-made climate change obsolete.

and my budget to fight these fires - laughable. and our support from the Indonesian government - laughable. So it will probably happen. So pass me that spliff because its about to get heavy

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Actually here's a good photo if you're caned:

As seen from Mercury, dot on the left is earth. dot on the right is the moon. We're kind of on our own here!

 

[BadFish]

i will be perfectly honest with you,i knew the answer to this question before you asked me.....that was earlier though......now i am unfortunately in the middle of a serious poker night and the jeremiah weed is kicking in.....not much is making sense.......i am hoping someone is in charge of the cheese sandwiches

enjoy your night, good luck!

 

[melias shoes]

Yes, I always love this argument. The idea that hundreds of scientists who have spent their whole lives studying climate conditions have never heard of the Ice Age is so ludicrous that I'm surprised it even gets aired. Surely just a moment's thought would reveal how nonsensical this is?



You really don't understand how science works, do you?



Let's have a look at the 20 largest companies in the world and see how many rely on green technologies and how many rely on fossil fuel technologies: ones from the petrochemical, electricity and automotive industries marked in bold, those reliant on alternative technologies in italic.

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
Royal Dutch Shell
Exxon Mobil Corporation
China National Petroleum Corporation
Sinopec Group
BP
Saudi Aramco
Vitol
State Grid Corporation of China
Volkswagen Group
Chevron
Total
Toyota
Glencore
Samsung Electronics
E.ON
Japan Post Holdings
Eni
Phillips 66
Gazprom

Yeah, no jobs dependent on oil or gas there ...

Yeah, I understand how science works and I also understand that there scientists who dispute these claims. Do you?

 

[ozseagull]

Yeah, I understand how science works and I also understand that there scientists who dispute these claims. Do you?

Nope because the only opinion that matters is his. He is anti government, anti police anti big corporation. Won't listen to others opinions. It's a waste if time even trying to have a constructive conversation with him. PS don't slag off cats that would really upset him.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Watched David Attenborough last night on BBC about the evolution of vertebrates. There were plenty of mentions of previous climate changes that in fact led to the world being the way it is - in other words long term benefits of climate changes after short term pain. Relative to the length of the earth's existence of course.

Personally I don't doubt for a minute that the current rate of change is too fast and that it will affect greatly our ability to house, feed and water fellow humans. Think this won't affect you or your children? There's every chance of us fighting wars over land and water ownership sooner rather than later. Personally I eat better quality meat less often, recycle almost as second nature and walk or cycle or take public transport to most places. It's really not that hard in a socially democratic country that is relatively small.

The problem is though that, quite apart from the history of cyclical change there IS contradictory evidence. For example we have been told for years that ecological disaster caused by melting ice caps is inevitable. This year the size of the arctic ice cap increased. Do you remember seeing that on the BBC? Or in the Guardian? Actually (*chokes*) the top links for it come up with the Mail, Telegraph and Independent.

All the time there is contradictory evidence not everyone is going to be convinced. All the time the same old protesters show up at the same old venues instead of putting over their concerns intelligently and democratically, all the time environmentalists tell you and I how to live our lives while making no impression on world government and big industry doubt and resistance will abound.

 

[ozseagull]

Watched David Attenborough last night on BBC about the evolution of vertebrates. There were plenty of mentions of previous climate changes that in fact led to the world being the way it is - in other words long term benefits of climate changes after short term pain. Relative to the length of the earth's existence of course.

Personally I don't doubt for a minute that the current rate of change is too fast and that it will affect greatly our ability to house, feed and water fellow humans. Think this won't affect you or your children? There's every chance of us fighting wars over land and water ownership sooner rather than later. Personally I eat better quality meat less often, recycle almost as second nature and walk or cycle or take public transport to most places. It's really not that hard in a socially democratic country that is relatively small.

The problem is though that, quite apart from the history of cyclical change there IS contradictory evidence. For example we have been told for years that ecological disaster caused by melting ice caps is inevitable. This year the size of the arctic ice cap increased. Do you remember seeing that on the BBC? Or in the Guardian? Actually (*chokes*) the top links for it come up with the Mail, Telegraph and Independent.

All the time there is contradictory evidence not everyone is going to be convinced. All the time the same old protesters show up at the same old venues instead of putting over their concerns intelligently and democratically, all the time environmentalists tell you and I how to live our lives while making no impression on world government and big industry doubt and resistance will abound.

I like that. A post with your own views and some examples that show both sides of the discussion/ argument.

If only some others on here were capable of looking beyond one side of every story.

 

[BadFish]

I like that. A post with your own views and some examples that show both sides of the discussion/ argument.

If only some others on here were capable of looking beyond one side of every story.

If this were the case you probably wouldn't be here as it would be very boring.

 

[ozseagull]

If this were the case you probably wouldn't be here as it would be very boring.

No it wouldn't. It's called having your own opinion but also respecting that others can have one that differs. That's how adults have debates. Ever heard of agree to disagree

 

[BadFish]

No it wouldn't. It's called having your own opinion but also respecting that others can have one that differs. That's how adults have debates. Ever heard of agree to disagree

Debates are boring binfests are fun - hence the popularity of NSC.

To be honest I am not sure what you are complaining about. I haven't really noticed anyone on this thread disrespecting other peoples opinions (aside from myself disrespecting the 'don't give a shit' opinion of one poster **. Which i won't apologise for). For it is has been a fairly reasoned and respectful. debate (by NSC standards anyway).

** and your good self being disrespectful of Gwylan's opinions and his love of cats.

 

[Gwylan]

** and your good self being disrespectful of Gwylan's opinions and his love of cats.

Love of cats? While not actively hating them, I'm not a particular fan of cats - where did that come from?

 

[BadFish]

Love of cats? While not actively hating them, I'm not a particular fan of cats - where did that come from?

A bit of confusion with another poster I think.

 

[ozseagull]

Love of cats? While not actively hating them, I'm not a particular fan of cats - where did that come from?

I will accept that and my comment regarding your views on other subjects was also misdirected and therefore unfair. I have infact confused you with someone else completely. So I apologise and eat humble pie.

 

[BadFish]

I will accept that and my comment regarding your views on other subjects was also misdirected and therefore unfair. I have infact confused you with someone else completely. So I apologise and eat humble pie.

Me too although they do both have a Welsh sounding name so we can be excused

 

[hybrid_x]

 

[matthew]

Its alright, I'm writing it with a smile on my face, I'm just trying to find another way to get the message across. Cold hard science seems to have failed to win the debate - even though by any logic the debate has been won. But we can carry on arguing about this, thats all the sceptics want anyway because it delays any decisions being made and people can get richer in this lifetime without worrying about those after them.

I'm at the frontline of this, year-after -year I'm mobilising fire-fighting teams to save the largest lowland rainforest in Borneo from fires that are happening every dry season because of extended droughts that have been occurring more and more frequently since 1997 because of climate change. Now people need not care about the 7,000 orangutans that will die, but they should care about the 6,000 km2 of peat-swamp of average depth 8m that is PURE carbon, which if it (and the rest of the peat forests here) go up in smoke will make any debate about the legitimacy of man-made climate change obsolete.

and my budget to fight these fires - laughable. and our support from the Indonesian government - laughable. So it will probably happen. So pass me that spliff because its about to get heavy

Good on you Sir, I was in indonesia last summer and saw first hand the amount of rainforest that has been cut down in exchange for palm oil and other stuff like toilet paper - Shocking

 

[BLOCK F]

Whatever the truth is about climate change,no-one really knows,including all those scientists and academics with a vested interest in keeping the funding coming in and retaining their jobs.
Climate has always changed and always will do,so we've got to live with it.It is not all bad news if temperatures increase,but we never hear from the doomsters about benefits of climate change do we?
There really is no point in wringing our hands and saying mankind is all doomed.It is not,we have just got to live with it and use our technological skills to overcome problems and benefit from any changes in the climate.
It is futile wasting zillions on trying to turn the clock back,it can't be done and the scientists who are trying to scare the shit out of people would be better employed using their brains to discover ways of how we can adapt and live successfully with whatever nature presents us with.

 

[matthew]

I am very conscious about the environment, but we have to do it for ourselves. Human civilization will not go on without top soil, rain forests, fish in the sea, ice caps etc. but the planet can. Even if we pollute ourselves into extinction, give the planet a few hundred thousands years, it will be hard to know we were ever here. That is the same planet that went through ice ages, asteroid impacts etc. etc. and recovered with a rich fauna and flora every time.
Save the environment, not because it's the altruistic choice, but because it's actually the egoistic choice...

 

[sydney]

Thanks for the advice but i think I will stick to my guns on this ".....and if it don't work at least we say we tried"

I don't share Sydney's bleak view of the future (well sometimes, but i soon regain a little optimism) My kids, and the kids I teach will grow up believing that something can be done and maybe if we can't make the changes necessary then they will. Of course by then I will not be worrying for them, but for my grand kids.

Make sure you enjoy your time Sloe Joe. Because without the selfish enjoyment of your 3 score and 10 there is little point to your existence.

aaah well ...i'm afraid you are most likely deluded then....only one way from here sausage.......