This "Fans not customers" rubbish

[glasfryn]

Sorry I know I've already quoted you on another point, but you HAVE to accept, that if this club is not run as a slick business, then we will fade in time back to the dark days, albeit with our own (less than half full) ground.

As much as I hate dickheads who quote, if you don't like it go and support Palace crap, I feel if you don't like it, don't go! You can still be a fan without going and spending your money every week. If you feel so strongly that they are treating you poorly, stop sending money. If you're correct, and enough people agree with you, things will change. If the club continues to sell out season tickets and match tickets week after week, they you may have to accept that your views are not correct and that you are in the minority. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

FWIW I consider myself a number one, a fan, always have been always will be, and number two a customer. I go to most games (all home, loads away) and I am a fan of Brighton. If for whatever reason I can't go and watch a game, I'm still a fan. If I spend my money, I'm also a customer.

I don't get this fan/customer debate at all. To me its just an excuse to have a pop at the club, and it seems Paul Barber is the one a handful are turning on, because they don't want to face the truth, that it was Tony Bloom that got rid of their precious Poyet. I think this is all about people not being able to accept, that Poyet was not the manager they thought he was. But they can't have a pop at Tony Bloom for obvious reasons, so go for Paul Barber instead!! The man is just doing his job, as Tony Bloom and the board requires.

thats transparent enough
when did you find this out then??

 

[dougdeep]

Who used the term within the club and when?

Nobody?

 

[VHA on NSC]

I don't get this fan/customer debate at all. To me its just an excuse to have a pop at the club, and it seems Paul Barber is the one a handful are turning on, because they don't want to face the truth, that it was Tony Bloom that got rid of their precious Poyet. I think this is all about people not being able to accept, that Poyet was not the manager they thought he was. But they can't have a pop at Tony Bloom for obvious reasons, so go for Paul Barber instead!! The man is just doing his job, as Tony Bloom and the board requires.

Whilst I agree that fans of all clubs can be somewhat precious at times, I think the thing that rankles in this kind of argument is that is that language such as 'customers' removes the very ethos of what being a football fan has traditionally been all about. As has been said numerous times in arguments with Palace fans, football is all about what's on the pitch. Sure, Brighton have been exceptional at trying to get everything right in terms of stadium experience, merchandising, catering, and so on. A product that they believe will satisfy their 'customers'. But what of the thing that should be the centrepiece, not the sideshow that these football business gurus threaten to make it - the football itself? Can that 'product' be guaranteed? No, of course not. And if it doesn't meet expectations, it will be the fans who still keep the turnstiles clicking, and not the customers. Barber et al would do well remembering that, in my opinion.

 

[WATFORD zero]

In 45 years as a Fan, I've never enjoyed the experience of going to watch the Albion as much as I have in the last couple as a Customer.

I suspect this whole thing is fueled either by silly old sods trying to relive their youth or people too young to remember.

 

[WATFORD zero]

thats transparent enough
when did you find this out then??

Did you not know ? Tony Bloom is in charge of the Albion (happened a little while back)

 

[Deadly Danson]

In 45 years as a Fan, I've never enjoyed the experience of going to watch the Albion as much as I have in the last couple as a Customer.

I suspect this whole thing is fueled either by silly old sods trying to relive their youth or people too young to remember.

100% this this this.

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

thats transparent enough
when did you find this out then??

Tony Bloom is the chairman of the club. Without him, we would be at Withdean. What division is anyones guess. He has spent over a £100 million on a new ground and training ground. He ploughs a good few million in a season to cover the loses. Are you seriously saying, Tony Bloom would allow someone else to have the power to sack/suspend/do whatever to the first team manager/coaching staff without his express consent? Really?

If thats all you want the club to be transparent about, I think you need to go out an play in the sun, because next you'll be moaning about the spelling of the clubs name

 

[glasfryn]

Tony Bloom is the chairman of the club. Without him, we would be at Withdean. What division is anyones guess. He has spent over a £100 million on a new ground and training ground. He ploughs a good few million in a season to cover the loses. Are you seriously saying, Tony Bloom would allow someone else to have the power to sack/suspend/do whatever to the first team manager/coaching staff without his express consent? Really?

If thats all you want the club to be transparent about, I think you need to go out an play in the sun, because next you'll be moaning about the spelling of the clubs name

you stated that"that it was Tony Bloom that got rid of their precious Poyet"
when exactly did this happen then last I heard he was still the manager of the Albion ....suspended but still the manager
your answer was a bit of a fudge
WHEN DID YOU FIND OUT POYET HAD BEEN "GOT RID OF"

 

[VHA on NSC]

Tony Bloom is the chairman of the club. Without him, we would be at Withdean. What division is anyones guess. He has spent over a £100 million on a new ground and training ground. He ploughs a good few million in a season to cover the loses. Are you seriously saying, Tony Bloom would allow someone else to have the power to sack/suspend/do whatever to the first team manager/coaching staff without his express consent? Really?

If thats all you want the club to be transparent about, I think you need to go out an play in the sun, because next you'll be moaning about the spelling of the clubs name

It's the constant battle of the ying and the yang, the balance between the romance of football and the need to be a viable business. Superficially, it's hard to understand how any Brighton fan can have anything to complain about.

But TB is also a fan, who has come through the hard times with you all. If there are some old school Brighton fans out there beginning to feel a bit marginalised by feeling that their club is drifting away from them a little, they can surely take comfort that there couldn't be a better owner of the club to allay their fears?

 

[drew]

If a customer is not happy with the service at BHAFC he will go find another service, or in this case another franchise. Fans, however, will stick with the club no matter what. That's not saying fans aren't customers too, but it's not all that we are - and this new maxim "fans not customers" has arisen because some fans feel as if they are being treated only as customers, with the unwelcome marketing strategies which devalue the community & fan centric ethos that has made our club so great in the past - when the reality is that we would give our money to the club without any resentment anyway.

Barbers marketing and branding decisions are continually made without any consultation with the fans and it is clear that many of us don't agree with them, or we think they should be done in a different way.

Transparency, honesty, communication from the club is all that is required to make fans feel as if they are fans again, not just customers.

Why do you introduce the term 'franchise'. Brighton is far from that. Most companies do not consult all there customers about changes however, if the changes do not get a favourable response then they will adapt them. Membership schemes are already in existence at other clubs. If not enough people sign up then they will probably drop it. Same as ST prices. If no one purchased then the price would come down but fact is they have sold 23k of them so they must be getting it right.

Any business worth it's salt knows that feedback from it's customers, and acting on it, is the number one priority to ensuring it builds new customers and retain's existing ones.

How does it do that? It treats it's customers with the respect they deserve for being a customer. It continues to build loyalty by treating customers in the way they expect, which in turn drives new business, and helps deliver against the promises they make.

Now on matchdays, by and large, that happens. Yes there are a few pies that people want but don't get, but on the whole, for a football match, it's pretty good. However, there is just a bit too much coming out of the club that is driving negativity, and ultimately affecting the 'branding' that is clearly trying to be created.

For a football club with it's most-recent history built on engagement and dialogue with it's customers, all of the latest programmes for change are not being handled with either sensitivity or any acceptable level of communication. These moves are not good developments are not good news for this football club in my view.

A few years ago we attracted 5/6k at a council athletics track. As you say, match day experience is infinitely better and probably epitomised by the increase in attendance. As for changes, how many changes are you specifically referring to that have annoyed you, or for that matter, all the Barber haters that have sprung up.

but if you are the seller of the goods to a customer then the customer is always right
ask Tesco's
M&S
Asda
British home stores
and just about any one in the service industry even those self employed
and I would go as far to say ask Cameron or Gideon
the customer pays so the customer is always right
unless you want to call the customer a fan then he/she will be shite on from a great height server manky food have bad transportation and a ground like Withdean.
or even the good old Goldstone were you could at least stand without being dragged out like some thug

choices

The difference is that the product you want is Brighton and Hove Albion which you can get at other football clubs except when we play them away and you become a customer of that club for a day. If you want Kellogs cornflakes, you get them at any supermarket.

some transparency would be a start

In 45 years as a Fan, I've never enjoyed the experience of going to watch the Albion as much as I have in the last couple as a Customer.

I suspect this whole thing is fueled either by silly old sods trying to relive their youth or people too young to remember.

Far to sensible to be posting on here.

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

you stated that"that it was Tony Bloom that got rid of their precious Poyet"
when exactly did this happen then last I heard he was still the manager of the Albion ....suspended but still the manager
your answer was a bit of a fudge
WHEN DID YOU FIND OUT POYET HAD BEEN "GOT RID OF"

Okay, you cling to the fact that Poyet is going to continue. That's fine. Please carry on.

So, please answer the question

How do you want the club to be more transparent?

From what you have said above, you want them to tell us the outcome of the Poyet saga.

I'm pretty sure the moment it is all resolved, they club will be instantly transparent in the form of a statement or press conference. I'm pretty certain the reason they haven't old us yet, is that is hasn't been resolved and is ongoing. Or are you suggesting its all resolved, but the club are holding the outcome from us?

I really don't understand what you want/expect?

So come on. You said you want the club to be more transparent?

Just how exactly?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

What's wrong with consulting the fans first? If the club and fans work together, like a community and fan centric club should, these marketing decisions could be made without any risk of boycott or resentment.

For example - if the fans were consulted about the clackers at Palace first - would they have happened?

If you wish to have an input into these types of decisions, may i suggest you buy some shares in the club and join the clubs board of directors, because you seem to have a belief that by buying something from a company, you should have a say in how they are run and it's not how the real world works. (would you demand to be consulted over which films are shown and at what times at a Cineworld cinema if you happened to be one of their unlimited card holders? - no)

What business consults its customers over virtually every decision it makes (which is what you seem to be implying that they should do) Instead they have experienced personnel employed to take these types of decisions (such as Barber)

 

[glasfryn]

Okay, you cling to the fact that Poyet is going to continue. That's fine. Please carry on.

So, please answer the question

How do you want the club to be more transparent?

From what you have said above, you want them to tell us the outcome of the Poyet saga.

I'm pretty sure the moment it is all resolved, they club will be instantly transparent in the form of a statement or press conference. I'm pretty certain the reason they haven't old us yet, is that is hasn't been resolved and is ongoing. Or are you suggesting its all resolved, but the club are holding the outcome from us?

I really don't understand what you want/expect?

So come on. You said you want the club to be more transparent?

Just how exactly?

CHRIST ON A BIKE YOU ARE THE ONE WHO STATED THAT POYET HAD BEEN GOT RID OF NOT ME
and no I don't think he will stay and no that is not what I stated although I would like an answer some time preferably soon, so are you saying you know he has gone or not or are you like a lot on here just p***ing in the wind

jeez its been ages how long does it take to find out what has happened thats what I mean by transparency

you post was really some sort of fudge
AGAIN I will ask you have you heard that Poyet has been got rid of because if you have heard this its news to thousands

and one last thing like him or loathe him he took us to 4th

 

[Hamilton]

Tony Bloom is the chairman of the club. Without him, we would be at Withdean. What division is anyones guess. He has spent over a £100 million on a new ground and training ground. He ploughs a good few million in a season to cover the loses. Are you seriously saying, Tony Bloom would allow someone else to have the power to sack/suspend/do whatever to the first team manager/coaching staff without his express consent? Really?

If thats all you want the club to be transparent about, I think you need to go out an play in the sun, because next you'll be moaning about the spelling of the clubs name

Just want to point out that a chairman does not run a business. The business is run by the CEO. The CEO reports to the board of directors which is chaired by the Chairman.

Decisions that affect the material value of the business must be reported to the board and are discussed by the board. The board signs off on the strategy and on decisions that affect material value.

When it comes to the dismissal of a member of staff, the CEO can do this alone (as long as it does not affect the material value of the business.)

When it comes to decisions on marketing initiatives, then the CEO does not have to consult the Chairman. In equal measure, it is likely that the head of marketing or commercial director will have presented their strategy to the CEO who will have signed that strategy off so that the relevant members of the management can execute the strategy without having to refer to the CEO.

I'm supporting what you are saying, but I'm also clarifying what the dynamic is inside a business.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Agree wholeheartedly.

I enjoyed the OP's piece. Good read.

I'd raise a couple of points for consideration.

"If I didn't get (good service) I wouldn't want to go back, I wouldn't recommend the club or the Amex to anyone else."

I disagree with this. I think the OP does as well, bearing in mind that he put up with the Goldstone, as we all did. You choose your club, and when it has chosen you then you're stuck with it. The Amex is 1000 times better that the Broadfield Stadium, but I'll bet their are Crawley fans that wouldn't dream of changing teams just because the customer service is better.

This is also the issue I take with the point made by another poster that "the customer is king." That's true where there is choice. With football, we have no choice. It's the same with the railways. Are you a passenger or a customer? You're both, but as a passenger you have next to no choice as to who you travel with.

We have no right as fans to know the details of specific management decisions as they are being played out, BUT we do have the right to have a voice. In fact, we have a responsibility to make our voice known. We've seen what happens when our voices are not raised. This is why NSC is so good.

As for where all this "customer" language came from, I'm not so sure. Certainly the word has been used by the club - after all, it's in the club charter:

http://www.seagulls.co.uk/documents/club-charter229-406421.pdf

It's at least reassuring the the word "supporter" gets twice as many mentions as the word "customer."

However you can still be a fan of the Albion but decide not to go to games or to buy merchandise, etc.

Crowds when we were at Withdean dropped, a possible reason was that they were unhappy to pay the price that was being asked of them to watch games there so they didn't bother going - So in this sense the OP is right

 

[Guy Fawkes]

To me the whole fans not customers thing seems to be by a smallish group of people who feel the need to have their ego stroked and feel that they are owed something by the club for their support.

I suspect the vast majority of people with an interest in the Albion don't really care if we are referred to as supporters, fans or customers by the club.

 

[The Large One]

I'm a fan of Brighton & Hove Albion, but I'm a customer of Dick's Bar when I buy a pint. True, I wouldn't be a customer if I wasn't a fan, but I am. So I am.

I'm not sure why people can't accept that they're both.

 

[KZNSeagull]

If you are a fan and refuse to be termed a customer, can you use the club's customer services department?

 

[hybrid_x]

the OP works for the club, it's written in a statement form, like a newsletter - and only 20 odd posts.

they have ppl plugged into here to see what the general feel is on club policies (sorry, business policy changes).

it's getting a little plastic everywhere......but football is a product that is sold - it was always going to go this way......but the relationship between fans (customers) and club (business delivering a product) will get distant......the club becomes like tv set, instead of being able to smell the grass as your own lawn.

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

Just want to point out that a chairman does not run a business. The business is run by the CEO. The CEO reports to the board of directors which is chaired by the Chairman.

Decisions that affect the material value of the business must be reported to the board and are discussed by the board. The board signs off on the strategy and on decisions that affect material value.

When it comes to the dismissal of a member of staff, the CEO can do this alone (as long as it does not affect the material value of the business.)

When it comes to decisions on marketing initiatives, then the CEO does not have to consult the Chairman. In equal measure, it is likely that the head of marketing or commercial director will have presented their strategy to the CEO who will have signed that strategy off so that the relevant members of the management can execute the strategy without having to refer to the CEO.

I'm supporting what you are saying, but I'm also clarifying what the dynamic is inside a business.

I am fully aware of how business works. But in most businesses, in fact I'd say any business where the chairman has taken over a business worth next to nothing, and spent £120m on it over the course of five or six years, I'd say he would have far more power than a chairman of a large Limited company or PLC! There is no way on this planet, Poyet would have been suspended without Tony Blooms approval.