portlock seagull
Why? Why us?
- Jul 28, 2003
- 17,307
Which is why no one ever wins anything beyond the rich 6!
[Albion] The OFFICIAL what’s gone wrong with our season thread
- Thread starter The Wookiee
- Start date
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- Jun 27, 2012
- 13,982
Always comes up on chats like this - so would anyone like to have a stab at it ? Given that nobody ever does.
What is a "ready made PL player" or a " PL Ready player" ? Can you define it ? Is there a formula ? Is it entirely subjective ? How much do they cost ? How old are they ? how experienced are they ?
Presumably Caicedo wasn't one when we bought him, then he clearly was after going on loan , and now perhaps he isn't again ? So we shouldn't have bought him ?
What told us that Pedro was PL ready ? , What about Esupinan ? Cucurella ? Gross ? compared to Dahoud ? Igor ? Undav ? HOW DO YOU KNOW ?
I always think it sounds like hindsight to me. All signings are a risk. And Albion have had some success with a mix of teenagers, veterans and succesful players from La Liga , Bundesliga and the Championship and also some some misfires as you'd expect - but that's the project. . But the call is always rather the fanciful - make more signings that are successful instead of deliberately - in Albion's case , given they're having a bumpy season, -buying ones that aren't.
Its not buy more PL ready players is it... its buy more successful ones.
What is a "ready made PL player" or a " PL Ready player" ? Can you define it ? Is there a formula ? Is it entirely subjective ? How much do they cost ? How old are they ? how experienced are they ?
Presumably Caicedo wasn't one when we bought him, then he clearly was after going on loan , and now perhaps he isn't again ? So we shouldn't have bought him ?
What told us that Pedro was PL ready ? , What about Esupinan ? Cucurella ? Gross ? compared to Dahoud ? Igor ? Undav ? HOW DO YOU KNOW ?
I always think it sounds like hindsight to me. All signings are a risk. And Albion have had some success with a mix of teenagers, veterans and succesful players from La Liga , Bundesliga and the Championship and also some some misfires as you'd expect - but that's the project. . But the call is always rather the fanciful - make more signings that are successful instead of deliberately - in Albion's case , given they're having a bumpy season, -buying ones that aren't.
Its not buy more PL ready players is it... its buy more successful ones.
It is incredibly difficult to challenge the Big Six (or Eight is it now?). To do so is a long game. The only realistic route is to (a) unearth under-priced gems, and (b) build revenue through player sales. We try to do both. We may succeed, but it doesn’t happen overnight.
JamesAndTheGiantHead
Well-known member
I think it’s simply a case of we had a couple of demoralising defeats which knocked us out of Europe, followed by losses in the league which made another top 6/7 finish unrealistic.
Heads have dropped since then and there doesn’t seem to be any incentive amongst the players to go for it in any of our recent games.
No relegation threat, no chance of Europe, not in any cups and shouldering key injuries.
Heads have dropped since then and there doesn’t seem to be any incentive amongst the players to go for it in any of our recent games.
No relegation threat, no chance of Europe, not in any cups and shouldering key injuries.
Withdean11
Well-known member
Considering two of the areas he heads up have spectacularly failed this season (Recruitment/Medical), should David Weir be getting some/most of the blame?
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,459
Sorry, but neither your (a) or (b) will allow us to ever challenge the Big Six or Eight or whatever. We currently do both (a) and (b). We're slowly but surely being priced out of the top half of the top table. Rightly or wrongly, the only thing that will reverse that drift is a humungous injection of funds such that our top talent sees the Albion as a destination rather than as a stepping stone. Not quite sure TB is willing or able to take us a lot further on our journey without embarking on a strategic partnership with an entity with much deeper pockets
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Agree completely.
I think a full preseason will do both players the world of good.
Barco had a great second half yesterday.
Loved it when he left something on the Plucky wide player after he’d got a cross in.
Will irritate a lot of players
macbeth
Dismembered
you volunteering?
Yes, that was fantastic
It should have been a penalty, and most likely a second yellow.
I don’t know what you meanYes, that was fantastic
It should have been a penalty, and most likely a second yellow.
Got there as soon as he could etc
If that had been given we might as well make it non-contact.
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Bournemouth also spent lot of money in the previous January and effectively halted their downward trajectory. We played them in February 2023 and won with a narrow 1-0 victory but they had purchased 3 or 4 strong, quick and skilful players in the January window and it was clear they were significantly better as a result.
He will need to watch himself, whilst he comfortably got away with the challenge, he does have a habit of jumping with one of his arms very high.Yes, that was fantastic
It should have been a penalty, and most likely a second yellow.
London Irish
Well-known member
Interesting stuff - I'll take a stab at some of these.
Caicedo wasn't PL ready but developed rapidly so he was within a season, that's the ideal as with Ali Mac but it's the dream scenario, you can't rely on it. Baleba signed from a good level but young/not many appearances - that's not a PL ready player. Might have developed quickly if our prayers answered but he hasn't.
Pedro if you perform well near the top of the Champ, the consensus is you will be ready. Esutipan and Cucurella signed from a high enough level to say ready. Gross was a bit more of a gamble maybe but I think close to that level so yes. Dahoud yes but here's the thing - signing an experienced performer isn't a guarantee that said experienced player won't go backwards, no guarantees in football alas.
I think these are all the level of signings we should be aiming for going forward. We've tended to bend the stick too much to younger players and then banking on rapid development. Not saying we shouldn't get those players but De Zerbi can't build a team relying on them.
macbeth
Dismembered
disagree. i mean obviously, buying more successful ones would be great, however although it’s not an exact science, broadly speaking a pl ready player to me is either one with pl experience, or top 5/european competition experience.
i actually think it’s relatively easy to divide players up into ‘pl ready’ and ‘not pl ready’. good examples are cucurella and estupinan. both with top 5 league experience, in pervis’ case european too, brought in to cover evident gaps in the team and ready to go after very little adaptation. pedro had already had significant game time in the pl, so knew the league despite not tearing it up on previous occasions. veltman another with extensive european experience. these are players where there isn’t as much expectation that you’re going to have to give them the whole season before they are up and running, like we’ve seen with baleba this season.
although as i said, it’s not an exact science, dahoud and fati are two players who for me both fit the ‘pl ready’ criteria, however neither have been successful, and caicedo was not someone who you’d say was ‘pl ready’ and yet was excellent from day one. however i think there is a general rule of thumb that says when you buy players from vastly inferior leagues, or with very limited senior experience, in all likelihood they will need a longer period of adaptation than those who have that better experience. which is of course fine, however not ideal if there’s huge gaps in your team and all the players you’ve bought to fill the gaps aren’t ready to start
Jimmy Grimble
Well-known member
He barely jumps based on what I’ve seen so far! Doesn’t look like a natural header of the ball at all.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 26,027
And when was this period that we were established in the top half of the top table before we got slowly but surely priced out of it
I understand this man opens his wallet regularly for ready made players and is always recruiting 'fans', maybe more to your taste
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Dunno about that. He was brilliant on his debut at Arsenal, and never looked backed.
Suggested he should have been selected a lot, lot sooner.
Hit the ground running, unlike say Biss or Mac.
7dialssouthpaw
Active member
- Sep 10, 2022
- 135
Sorry if late to the thread - did anyone mention the transfer ban from USG? I think it put a spanner in our works that we did TOO well last year and ended up in the same cup as our feeder club.
Last year was a perfect storm (Mac in the WC; His and Moi's partnership in MF; the momentum from a new manager on a free hit; the freebie that was Colwill; no European games).
Then this year, everyone stole out clothes. Our best players got poached, we got gazumped continuously in the transfer market and everyone cloned our style of play.
Last year was a perfect storm (Mac in the WC; His and Moi's partnership in MF; the momentum from a new manager on a free hit; the freebie that was Colwill; no European games).
Then this year, everyone stole out clothes. Our best players got poached, we got gazumped continuously in the transfer market and everyone cloned our style of play.