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[Albion] The OFFICIAL what’s gone wrong with our season thread



portlock seagull

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2003
17,666
That's the fatal flaw in the club's business model sadly. Say we were to unearth the next Rooney or Messi or Ronaldo. As soon as they hit the first team they're in the shop window and - assuming they're not a one-season-wonder - they'll be ripe for plucking. And the club will be powerless to do anything about it other than bank the cash. It's depressing from the point of view of the club trying to ever build anything special for any length of time
Which is why no one ever wins anything beyond the rich 6!
 




chaileyjem

#BarberIn
NSC Patron
Jun 27, 2012
14,567
Always comes up on chats like this - so would anyone like to have a stab at it ? Given that nobody ever does.

What is a "ready made PL player" or a " PL Ready player" ? Can you define it ? Is there a formula ? Is it entirely subjective ? How much do they cost ? How old are they ? how experienced are they ?

Presumably Caicedo wasn't one when we bought him, then he clearly was after going on loan , and now perhaps he isn't again ? So we shouldn't have bought him ?

What told us that Pedro was PL ready ? , What about Esupinan ? Cucurella ? Gross ? compared to Dahoud ? Igor ? Undav ? HOW DO YOU KNOW ?

I always think it sounds like hindsight to me. All signings are a risk. And Albion have had some success with a mix of teenagers, veterans and succesful players from La Liga , Bundesliga and the Championship and also some some misfires as you'd expect - but that's the project. . But the call is always rather the fanciful - make more signings that are successful instead of deliberately - in Albion's case , given they're having a bumpy season, -buying ones that aren't.

Its not buy more PL ready players is it... its buy more successful ones.
 


Jim in the West

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 13, 2003
4,932
Way out West
That's the fatal flaw in the club's business model sadly. Say we were to unearth the next Rooney or Messi or Ronaldo. As soon as they hit the first team they're in the shop window and - assuming they're not a one-season-wonder - they'll be ripe for plucking. And the club will be powerless to do anything about it other than bank the cash. It's depressing from the point of view of the club trying to ever build anything special for any length of time

It is incredibly difficult to challenge the Big Six (or Eight is it now?). To do so is a long game. The only realistic route is to (a) unearth under-priced gems, and (b) build revenue through player sales. We try to do both. We may succeed, but it doesn’t happen overnight.
 


JamesAndTheGiantHead

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2011
6,346
Worthing
I think it’s simply a case of we had a couple of demoralising defeats which knocked us out of Europe, followed by losses in the league which made another top 6/7 finish unrealistic.

Heads have dropped since then and there doesn’t seem to be any incentive amongst the players to go for it in any of our recent games.

No relegation threat, no chance of Europe, not in any cups and shouldering key injuries.
 






Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
72,158
It is incredibly difficult to challenge the Big Six (or Eight is it now?). To do so is a long game. The only realistic route is to (a) unearth under-priced gems, and (b) build revenue through player sales. We try to do both. We may succeed, but it doesn’t happen overnight.
Sorry, but neither your (a) or (b) will allow us to ever challenge the Big Six or Eight or whatever. We currently do both (a) and (b). We're slowly but surely being priced out of the top half of the top table. Rightly or wrongly, the only thing that will reverse that drift is a humungous injection of funds such that our top talent sees the Albion as a destination rather than as a stepping stone. Not quite sure TB is willing or able to take us a lot further on our journey without embarking on a strategic partnership with an entity with much deeper pockets
 
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Hiheidi

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2022
1,834
Bournemouth spent big in the Summer and didn't sell. This - and the new manager - is reaping rewards. But be interesting to see how this effects them FFP wise and if the big clubs will be pick off their top players like they did to us.

 






One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 4, 2006
22,893
Worthing
Think Barco and Baleba will turn out to be excellent signings - they just weren't ready replacements for what we lost in those areas
Agree completely.
I think a full preseason will do both players the world of good.
Barco had a great second half yesterday.
Loved it when he left something on the Plucky wide player after he’d got a cross in.

Will irritate a lot of players
 




hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
62,661
Chandlers Ford
Barco had a great second half yesterday.
Loved it when he left something on the Plucky wide player after he’d got a cross in.
Yes, that was fantastic :rolleyes:

It should have been a penalty, and most likely a second yellow.
 






Surf's Up

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2011
10,413
Here
Bournemouth spent big in the Summer and didn't sell. This - and the new manager - is reaping rewards. But be interesting to see how this effects them FFP wise and if the big clubs will be pick off their top players like they did to us.


Bournemouth also spent lot of money in the previous January and effectively halted their downward trajectory. We played them in February 2023 and won with a narrow 1-0 victory but they had purchased 3 or 4 strong, quick and skilful players in the January window and it was clear they were significantly better as a result.
 






Always comes up on chats like this - so would anyone like to have a stab at it ? Given that nobody ever does.

What is a "ready made PL player" or a " PL Ready player" ? Can you define it ? Is there a formula ? Is it entirely subjective ? How much do they cost ? How old are they ? how experienced are they ?

Presumably Caicedo wasn't one when we bought him, then he clearly was after going on loan , and now perhaps he isn't again ? So we shouldn't have bought him ?

What told us that Pedro was PL ready ? , What about Esupinan ? Cucurella ? Gross ? compared to Dahoud ? Igor ? Undav ? HOW DO YOU KNOW ?

I always think it sounds like hindsight to me. All signings are a risk. And Albion have had some success with a mix of teenagers, veterans and succesful players from La Liga , Bundesliga and the Championship and also some some misfires as you'd expect - but that's the project. . But the call is always rather the fanciful - make more signings that are successful instead of deliberately - in Albion's case , given they're having a bumpy season, -buying ones that aren't.

Its not buy more PL ready players is it... its buy more successful ones.
Interesting stuff - I'll take a stab at some of these.

Caicedo wasn't PL ready but developed rapidly so he was within a season, that's the ideal as with Ali Mac but it's the dream scenario, you can't rely on it. Baleba signed from a good level but young/not many appearances - that's not a PL ready player. Might have developed quickly if our prayers answered but he hasn't.

Pedro if you perform well near the top of the Champ, the consensus is you will be ready. Esutipan and Cucurella signed from a high enough level to say ready. Gross was a bit more of a gamble maybe but I think close to that level so yes. Dahoud yes but here's the thing - signing an experienced performer isn't a guarantee that said experienced player won't go backwards, no guarantees in football alas.

I think these are all the level of signings we should be aiming for going forward. We've tended to bend the stick too much to younger players and then banking on rapid development. Not saying we shouldn't get those players but De Zerbi can't build a team relying on them.
 


macbeth

Dismembered
Jan 3, 2018
4,147
six feet beneath the moon
Always comes up on chats like this - so would anyone like to have a stab at it ? Given that nobody ever does.

What is a "ready made PL player" or a " PL Ready player" ? Can you define it ? Is there a formula ? Is it entirely subjective ? How much do they cost ? How old are they ? how experienced are they ?

Presumably Caicedo wasn't one when we bought him, then he clearly was after going on loan , and now perhaps he isn't again ? So we shouldn't have bought him ?

What told us that Pedro was PL ready ? , What about Esupinan ? Cucurella ? Gross ? compared to Dahoud ? Igor ? Undav ? HOW DO YOU KNOW ?

I always think it sounds like hindsight to me. All signings are a risk. And Albion have had some success with a mix of teenagers, veterans and succesful players from La Liga , Bundesliga and the Championship and also some some misfires as you'd expect - but that's the project. . But the call is always rather the fanciful - make more signings that are successful instead of deliberately - in Albion's case , given they're having a bumpy season, -buying ones that aren't.

Its not buy more PL ready players is it... its buy more successful ones.
disagree. i mean obviously, buying more successful ones would be great, however although it’s not an exact science, broadly speaking a pl ready player to me is either one with pl experience, or top 5/european competition experience.

i actually think it’s relatively easy to divide players up into ‘pl ready’ and ‘not pl ready’. good examples are cucurella and estupinan. both with top 5 league experience, in pervis’ case european too, brought in to cover evident gaps in the team and ready to go after very little adaptation. pedro had already had significant game time in the pl, so knew the league despite not tearing it up on previous occasions. veltman another with extensive european experience. these are players where there isn’t as much expectation that you’re going to have to give them the whole season before they are up and running, like we’ve seen with baleba this season.

although as i said, it’s not an exact science, dahoud and fati are two players who for me both fit the ‘pl ready’ criteria, however neither have been successful, and caicedo was not someone who you’d say was ‘pl ready’ and yet was excellent from day one. however i think there is a general rule of thumb that says when you buy players from vastly inferior leagues, or with very limited senior experience, in all likelihood they will need a longer period of adaptation than those who have that better experience. which is of course fine, however not ideal if there’s huge gaps in your team and all the players you’ve bought to fill the gaps aren’t ready to start
 




WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,570
Sorry, but neither your (a) or (b) will allow us to ever challenge the Big Six or Eight or whatever. We currently do both (a) and (b). We're slowly but surely being priced out of the top half of the top table. Rightly or wrongly, the only thing that will reverse that drift is a humungous injection of funds such that our top talent sees the Albion as a destination rather than as a stepping stone. Not quite sure TB is willing or able to take us a lot further on our journey without embarking on a strategic partnership with an entity with much deeper pockets

And when was this period that we were established in the top half of the top table before we got slowly but surely priced out of it :wink:

Bloom not opening his wallet for ready made players
I understand this man opens his wallet regularly for ready made players and is always recruiting 'fans', maybe more to your taste

Todd-Boehly-1200x675.jpg
 
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Wozza

Custom title
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
24,320
Minteh Wonderland
Interesting stuff - I'll take a stab at some of these.

Caicedo wasn't PL ready.....

Dunno about that. He was brilliant on his debut at Arsenal, and never looked backed.

Suggested he should have been selected a lot, lot sooner.

Hit the ground running, unlike say Biss or Mac.
 


7dialssouthpaw

Active member
Sep 10, 2022
196
Sorry if late to the thread - did anyone mention the transfer ban from USG? I think it put a spanner in our works that we did TOO well last year and ended up in the same cup as our feeder club.
Last year was a perfect storm (Mac in the WC; His and Moi's partnership in MF; the momentum from a new manager on a free hit; the freebie that was Colwill; no European games).
Then this year, everyone stole out clothes. Our best players got poached, we got gazumped continuously in the transfer market and everyone cloned our style of play.
 


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