The Official 99th Tour de France thread, 2012.

[Woodchip]

Thanks. So, would 9 not be enough to try and win Green and Yellow jerseys?

Not really. It is am immense team effort to win a sprint, where the sprint train starts off with 9 men all giving their all and as each one burns out you are left with two. This is the lead-out man and the sprinter. The lead-out man is a pretty good sprinter in themselves but come the 400 metre marker he will pull to one side as the sprinter ramps up his speed.

At the end of a sprint all 9 men are shattered. That is why a team generally only concentrates on green or yellow.


That's my take anyway. I'm sure 1066 family man or SB will correct me on any points I've got wrong.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

Not really. It is am immense team effort to win a sprint, where the sprint train starts off with 9 men all giving their all and as each one burns out you are left with two. This is the lead-out man and the sprinter. The lead-out man is a pretty good sprinter in themselves but come the 400 metre marker he will pull to one side as the sprinter ramps up his speed.

At the end of a sprint all 9 men are shattered. That is why a team generally only concentrates on green or yellow.


That's my take anyway. I'm sure 1066 family man or SB will correct me on any points I've got wrong.

Its that to an extent, but more so it is the chasing down of breaks during the flatter stages. The yellow jersey team are expected to ride on the front to protect the yellow jersey but are often unconcerned by breakaways containing riders that are well down in the overall standings. However, as the sprinters want it all together for the finish, the team have to put in the effort to bring back the break.

There were quite a few stages this year won by the break, with pretty big time gaps as well. This wouldn't have happened in previous years as the HTC team would have exhausted themselves bringing them back for the bunch sprint. Its often asking too much of a team to do that job and the job of putting the pressure on in the mountains.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

A sprinter can do well by riding off the wheel of other teams trains. This year the trains weren't as effective as in years gone past so it played into the hands of the sprinters on teams with high placed GC riders.

Green Edge set up a few decent trains for Goss but his decision making let him down on a few stages.

 

[Marxo]

Cav's great weakness in the pursuit of Green jerseys will always be he can't go over the mountains like Sagan can. Thor showed that and now it's Sagan's to lose each year imo.

Cav has won the final stage 4 times now, so he's got over the mountains ok. Sagan and Thor didn't win green by getting points in the mountains, if I remember correctly Cav lost points to Thor through a disqualification and this year there was no ambition by Sky for the green. If Cav rides for a team that wants green then I wouldn't bet against him.

 

[teaboy]

Green Edge set up a few decent trains for Goss but his decision making let him down on a few stages.

That, and his lack of speed! Lotto had the best train and Greipel used it very well. Cavendish and Sagan used the Lotto train too. Neither Sky nor Liquigas wanted to put the effort in for stage wins then an overall win was still possible. That's why both those teams pulled back the break in Paris - overall was sorted and just the stage win to decide. It would be pretty impossible to do both for 3 weeks!

 

[Woodchip]

Its that to an extent, but more so it is the chasing down of breaks during the flatter stages. The yellow jersey team are expected to ride on the front to protect the yellow jersey but are often unconcerned by breakaways containing riders that are well down in the overall standings. However, as the sprinters want it all together for the finish, the team have to put in the effort to bring back the break.

There were quite a few stages this year won by the break, with pretty big time gaps as well. This wouldn't have happened in previous years as the HTC team would have exhausted themselves bringing them back for the bunch sprint. Its often asking too much of a team to do that job and the job of putting the pressure on in the mountains.

That bit as well. Kinda forgot that bit as it's part and parcel of the sport. lol

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

That, and his lack of speed! Lotto had the best train and Greipel used it very well. Cavendish and Sagan used the Lotto train too. Neither Sky nor Liquigas wanted to put the effort in for stage wins then an overall win was still possible. That's why both those teams pulled back the break in Paris - overall was sorted and just the stage win to decide. It would be pretty impossible to do both for 3 weeks!

Goss has the speed, he just seemed to misjudge his sprints. Lack of experience I think in being the #1 sprinter on the team at the biggest cycling event.

EBH is the most interesting rider at Sky.

Lots of talent but no true role and too good to be a domestique or just a lead out rider.

Either he switches teams or perhaps becomes Sky's classics type rider in the mould of a Boonen.

 

[teaboy]

It can't be easy for Goss and Renshaw when you're sprinting against someone you know is faster, and successful because of your work.

I see EBH as a similar rider to Thor Hushovd. Not quite quick enough for his own train but can get into breaks, long solo efforts or assist in lead-outs. He could be a great 1-dayer.

 

[Triggaaar]

The joys of a cleaner sport.

France's law makers strong arm tactics, 5 years ago, seem to be beginning to take effect.

Dips hat towards France (again)

 

[Stat Brother]

Thanks. So, would 9 not be enough to try and win Green and Yellow jerseys?

Not really. It is am immense team effort to win a sprint, where the sprint train starts off with 9 men all giving their all and as each one burns out you are left with two. This is the lead-out man and the sprinter. The lead-out man is a pretty good sprinter in themselves but come the 400 metre marker he will pull to one side as the sprinter ramps up his speed.

At the end of a sprint all 9 men are shattered. That is why a team generally only concentrates on green or yellow.


That's my take anyway. I'm sure 1066 family man or SB will correct me on any points I've got wrong.

Its that to an extent, but more so it is the chasing down of breaks during the flatter stages. The yellow jersey team are expected to ride on the front to protect the yellow jersey but are often unconcerned by breakaways containing riders that are well down in the overall standings. However, as the sprinters want it all together for the finish, the team have to put in the effort to bring back the break.

There were quite a few stages this year won by the break, with pretty big time gaps as well. This wouldn't have happened in previous years as the HTC team would have exhausted themselves bringing them back for the bunch sprint. Its often asking too much of a team to do that job and the job of putting the pressure on in the mountains.

Another and not final piece of the jigsaw, pretty much alluded to by the boys, but very relevant to the Olympics on Saturday.

If the sprinter is so much better than everybody else, there is NO incentive, for any other team to do the hard miles in pulling the break away back.

The Olympic team is only 5 riders, (Brad, Froome, Dave Millar, Ian Stannard all working for Cav).
That's not many compared to the 9, for the Worlds.

GB will be looking at Germany USA & Italy facepalm to help with the dirty work.
But what's in it for Griepel, Farrar, & Sagan if they think/know they can't beat Cav.

 

[Triggaaar]

But what's in it for Griepel, Farrar, & Sagan if they think/know they can't beat Cav.

Griepel and Sagan are in good form, I don't think they'll be thinking like that. Cav went early yesterday and Sagan was out of position, but he made up loads in the final 400m. If he'd timed it better he could have won - at least I think that's how he'll see it.

 

[Stat Brother]

Griepel and Sagan are in good form, I don't think they'll be thinking like that. Cav went early yesterday and Sagan was out of position, but he made up loads in the final 400m. If he'd timed it better he could have won - at least I think that's how he'll see it.

I doubt Sagan has the team, (I had a mental moment thinking he was Italian).
But being on an Italian team might help his as, traditionally the Italian National Team Cycling make the Dutch football squad look unified.

 

[oldham gull]

Wiggins v Eddie the Eagle. Some thoughts on British victory psyche in the run up to the Olympics. Click if you're interested! Falling With Style: Wiggins v Eddie the Eagle - the changing face of the British Anti hero

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

But what's in it for Griepel, Farrar, & Sagan if they think/know they can't beat Cav.

Given the right circumstances I am sure they all think they can beat Cav. I'd have thought in a bike race - on normal roads travelling at those speeds - anything can happen. You will never win if you go in thinking you can't beat Cav.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

Griepel and Sagan are in good form, I don't think they'll be thinking like that. Cav went early yesterday and Sagan was out of position, but he made up loads in the final 400m. If he'd timed it better he could have won - at least I think that's how he'll see it.

Greipel and Sagan will certainly back themselves to beat Cav in a sprint. However, these races usually have a small break go and if it contains either of these two or Cav then they won't work together to take them to the finish. That means either another rider will manage to jump away during the messing about, or the break will fail.

 

[Stat Brother]

Given the right circumstances I am sure they all think they can beat Cav. I'd have thought in a bike race - on normal roads travelling at those speeds - anything can happen. You will never win if you go in thinking you can't beat Cav.

You're quite right that was a bit of a glib comment, from someone still carried away on an emotional wave of GB cycling.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Teams with the big sprinters are somewhat suspect in races like this because they are setting it up for one specific rider.

A team like France with Chavanel and Gallopin might benefit from getting away in a break .

 

[Bold Seagull]

Anyone watching the Olympic time trial on 1 August?

Got a friend who lives in Hersham, and may watch from the Esher Rd / Molesey Rd / Burwood Rd section. Anyone given it any thought for best positions, or any tips for fully enjoying a time trial? (having not been to one before).

 

[teaboy]

Anyone watching the Olympic time trial on 1 August?

Got a friend who lives in Hersham, and may watch from the Esher Rd / Molesey Rd / Burwood Rd section. Anyone given it any thought for best positions, or any tips for fully enjoying a time trial? (having not been to one before).

I'll be there somewhere. I haven't really thought it through yet though! Take a picnic, cheer everyone on and enjoy the spectacle.

 

[Stat Brother]

and don't blink.