[Football] The “No Relegation” debate

[Iggle Piggle]

I'd go 2 up. 2 down. The playing field has changed (whenever we start it will alter the competition, Villa, for example, were decimated by injury and won't be whenever it restarts) so level up a bit by limiting it to 2 down and avoiding play offs in the divisions below to curtail the season.

Im not saying its perfect but it's better than a load of dead rubbers to crown Liverpool champs.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

No. Although I really don’t know what the solution is. I’m starting to think that this season should be declared null and void, all the alternatives just seem wrong.

Yes l absolutely agree. Play this season again with exasctly the same teams, and fixtures, when the new season gets underway come the middle of August, (with the first part of the season, if necessary, played behind closed doors).

The one potential fly in the ointment, is what to do about the teams who would have been promoted if this season had been played out now, the likes of Leeds & West Brom will very probably be instructing their lawyers, some sort of financial recompense involving the EPL and Sky perhaps?

 

[Diablo]

Because how many home games you have and against who *is* significant and therefore all teams feel some impact but some much greater than others.
The familiarity of home grounds, the rituals of dressing rooms, having WAGs and kids in the crowd and obviously, the greatest factor, the vast majority of fans cheering for you. These are all significant factors and if you play 3/4 of the season with them and 1/4 without,it is inherently unfair [and adds to the argument that whatever result we end up with is an invalid one.

Surely same for everyone makes it fair ?

 

[Seasidesage]

Once again, though, why do some feel the need to demonise football for exploring the ways in which its "business" can proceed?

Almost every business in the country will be planning for different scenarios that enables them to resume their business as soon as is safely practicable, and in most cases it's not for charity, it's for cold, hard cash.

In short, I'm really fed up with all the "it's all about the money" bollocks that a lot of people are spouting, as if football is the only business that has any interest at all in money.

This. My business along with a lot is still operating albeit at a reduced level and is planning for a resumption of 'normal' operation. Why can't football plan for a resumption? A lot of absolute bollocks being spouted by some on here. If you object don't watch its simple...

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

Agreed. This whole exercise has nothing to do with the integrity of the sport or the competition. If the broadcasters waived their fees that would be due back, the season would be declared void in a heartbeat, IMO.

Yep. It's no surprise, of course, but still a revealing reminder to see PL football in its naked self. PL football is television.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Have you looked at the Championship table? You are aware there are 27 points still to play for? What is clear cut about it?

Fair point –*I thought they were both a bit clearer of the chasing pack than just six points.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

All fair points but a fact you seem to be ignoring the fact that is football is a business. It directly employs something daft like 100k people in this country, I'm sure they care if the season is finished. Then you bring into play all the companies that make a living off the back of the football industry (TV, bookmakers, sports science etc etc) I'm sure all of their employees care if the season is finished.

The bloke who bankrolls our club makes his money from the football industry I'm sure he cares if the season is completed!!

I'm not ignoring it at all – I'm saying football is looking at itself in a bubble, without properly considering the wider world. Two major airlines have announced they are binning around 30% of their staff each, but no-one is clamouring to have planes flying again soon to save their jobs. There are millions of people who are suffering, but the players are sticking tight to their contracts and massive salaries (I know it's all relative, but they get WAY more money than one needs to live on) and seemingly aren't overly willing to take pay cuts. They are perfectly entitled to do that, of course, as per their contracts – but from a moral point of view, I just think it's wrong.

Then the 100k people you say are directly employed by the clubs. If they are contractors, they can look for other revenue streams – within the Albion family, Piglet's Pies are a great example of this because they have taken to direct selling to bring in some money. Or the people that have been employed could become key workers – there are THOUSANDS of jobs being advertised by supermarkets, for a start. If it is a case of adjusting to a new world, then so be it. In my own professional capacity, I've had a downturn in business of probably about 75%. It's happened before and I'm sure it will happen again. Fortunately I've learned to adapt and move in different directions to bring some money in. If football really IS a business – or wants to be viewed as a business – these are the challenges it must overcome. Cut your cloth accordingly, etc.

To put it bluntly, if clubs are suffering, then it is – in part – their own fault. The overspending year after year is ludicrous – I heard that Reading wage bill is 200% of it's revenue or something silly like that. That's no way to run a business. Although, going back to the airlines, US companies have made profits for years and years and they STILL got a government bailout.

 

[WilburySeagull]

If football were a real business where clubs that ade losses went out of business as in the real world they do the argument of treating it the same would stand up. Actually football has forever lived in a bubble where the real impact of profit and loss somehow doesnt apply. The only reason players wages are so high is the artificial nature of the business model.

 

[Fungus]

Any solution would depend on its impact on next season, or we could end up in the same mess again.

If next season can be guaranteed to start on schedule (I don't think think anyone can be sure), we can't really accept this season rumbling on through summer.

Otherwise, just merge the two seasons so remaining games can be completed with full teams (and hopefully spectators), have a winter break, then add some one-off cup or mini-leagues for fun and £££.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

I can guarantee that if it were Brighton and not Fulham six points off an automatic Championship promotion place you wouldn’t be saying that. With all due respect, a ridiculous post.

A tad harsh... I think I would be saying that regardless. It's not perfect but it's the lesser of the various evils. But you are right - especially if Fulham happen to have a much easier run-in than West Brom. I can't see that there is any option that is fair on everyone - other than completing the season normally when circumstances allow. However even that is unfair - players will be out of contract and many clubs will have gone out of business by then. This option just seems to be the best compromise.

 

[sparkie]

To compensate for neutral grounds being imposed we could reduce relegation to 1 team, and have a 1-off playoff between Leeds and West Brom to see who goes up.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

A tad harsh... I think I would be saying that regardless. It's not perfect but it's the lesser of the various evils. But you are right - especially if Fulham happen to have a much easier run-in than West Brom. I can't see that there is any option that is fair on everyone - other than completing the season normally when circumstances allow. However even that is unfair - players will be out of contract and many clubs will have gone out of business by then. This option just seems to be the best compromise.

Fulham have to go to Leeds and West Brom, so whilst not easier run ins, they do have an opportunity.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes l absolutely agree. Play this season again with exasctly the same teams, and fixtures, when the new season gets underway come the middle of August, (with the first part of the season, if necessary, played behind closed doors).

The one potential fly in the ointment, is what to do about the teams who would have been promoted if this season had been played out now, the likes of Leeds & West Brom will very probably be instructing their lawyers, some sort of financial recompense involving the EPL and Sky perhaps?

The way Leeds bottle it every year there is very little chance they would have been promoted. I would relegate them to give their fans a chance of winning something next season.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If football were a real business where clubs that ade losses went out of business as in the real world they do the argument of treating it the same would stand up. Actually football has forever lived in a bubble where the real impact of profit and loss somehow doesnt apply. The only reason players wages are so high is the artificial nature of the business model.

I think wages are so high to give further talking points for the broadcasters and give the impression it is a sport full of superstars. Whilst there are a few; there are also many more vastly over rated players. Sky will feed the fantasy all the while global revenues are so high which depends on factors like a healthy Asian gambling sector....hence behind closed doors football and the current anything goes attitude to rule changes.

 

[FloatLeft]

I say scrap the neutral venues idea but make the premier league pay for an enhanced police presence (or other means of stopping people coming to the ground).

Perhaps the phone networks can be blocked around grounds so to watch the game you would have to watch on an actual television.

 

[bluenitsuj]

To compensate for neutral grounds being imposed we could reduce relegation to 1 team, and have a 1-off playoff between Leeds and West Brom to see who goes up.

Even better would be to have a one off between West Brom and anyone apart from Leeds, just to shut them up

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Sorry - I wasn't saying you were demonising football, but there's a lot of it about, both on here and elsewhere.

Look, there's demonising and demonising. I'd be happy to see the season finish and am happy to see 'football' explore this. I even expect some daft proposals. But surely the season, if it is to complete, has to follow the order of fixtures as scheduled and in the stadia the games were intended? Yes, not beginning till it's reached some threshold of 'safe'. Yes, with empty stadia if that threshold of safe is iffy-safe (which it will be in June). The only thing to discuss, then, is when to start, or when to look to be able to say when to start (I still think it is too early to set a date but that's another story).

On the other hand I am damned well going to demonise 'football' if the clubs are actually going to vote on, and possibly approve some cockamamie scheme to have clubs shift fixtures to neutral stadia, play less than 90 minutes, or submit to even more silly rules like no spitting or wearing a top hat. All because of a perceived idea that 'getting the season done' at any cost (in terms of fannying about) will maintain the telly riches. Then what? Start the next season playing in neutral stadia? FFS. All the while 'football' moots such dimbot schemes people will attack it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I say scrap the neutral venues idea but make the premier league pay for an enhanced police presence (or other means of stopping people coming to the ground).

Perhaps the phone networks can be blocked around grounds so to watch the game you would have to watch on an actual television.

Water cannon and rubber bullets should suffice.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If football were a real business where clubs that ade losses went out of business as in the real world they do the argument of treating it the same would stand up. Actually football has forever lived in a bubble where the real impact of profit and loss somehow doesnt apply. The only reason players wages are so high is the artificial nature of the business model.

Hmmmm....it is subject to the same forces as any other business. But if an owner choses to operate it as a loss making hobby, so be it. And even he or she will have a tolerable level of loss. At the top, ManU end, money is made. Some owners decided to not really bother about keeping the money because they see the success of their club as a means of promoting a nation, and spend more even than allowed on luxury players and wages (Man City). I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the 'no relegation' debate though, or all the 'should we, shouldn't we set a restart date' quandry, though. Nevethethess, I suspect that we can agree on one thing - football is a funny old game.

 

[Weststander]

Yep. It's no surprise, of course, but still a revealing reminder to see PL football in its naked self. PL football is television.

A naked self of a generally awful business model. Now financially stress tested for real, clubs had spent their money, before they’ve earned all their income. Burnley, Palace and no doubt many others really need to retain the huge sums advanced to them.