Though remembering in 2006 the Blair government invited private providers into the NHS.
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[Politics] The NHS and funding
- Thread starter Giraffe
- Start date
Though remembering in 2006 the Blair government invited private providers into the NHS.
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True but it's a lesson that labour won't be repeating anytime soon
I actually think it was necessary at the time from a capacity perspective.
I didn’t think the Tories, Labour or any party will ‘sell’ the NHS, it’s simply too much of a vote loser.
Corbyn naturally will spin it that Tories will, in the same way the Tories will blame him for Brexit etc......
Just paving the way for negative campaigning by all parties and little positivity.
I’ve already had enough....
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Indeed. That was weakness. Unfortunately PPP was the thing, then, and Mr Tony calculated that to go against it would queer his party political pitch. In retrospect it would have been better had he had Red Lines. But we all now know what happens when you have red lines. Compromising with the electorate is a fine art. The new Labour man isn't a compromiser. Let's see where that leads him and us. Who knows? Perhaps the principled man might even win this time.
Perhaps also the fact that Corbyn will not throw the unionists under a bus in order to obtain a Brexit might bury the lie that he supports the IRA. If Corbyn decides that Brexit will ruin the union and that isn't acceptable, and says so, he may be on to a massive vote winner. Let's see if his tiny Islington brain can work that one out.
folkestonesgull
Active member
I thought id jump in to this debate...
I have a longstanding knee injury after tearing my ACL at 18 playing football. At the time the waiting list was almost a year for reconstruction and in that time the constant giving way of my knee led to a cartilage tear as well.
I had the ACL fixed and it has been strong, however since then the damage to my cartilage has led to 4 further operations.
I now need another operation and have decided to pay for it privately. It will cost me about £4k all in but is being done in 3 weeks, rather than a minimum of 4 months which with winter cancellations coming would probably be longer.
Whilst I really do appreciate the NHS two thoughts always stick with me.
The delay in initial care in this country due to an obscene waiting time has cost me a huge amount of pain and the NHS a huge amount of additional cost that would have been avoided in most countries of comparable wealth.
The current waiting time of 4-6 months is not acceptable. I am already compensating when walking and experiencing hip pain. I also would genuinely be scared of depression if I had to wait another 4 months minimum for an operation when I am used to running and cycling 4 times a week which keeps me sane, fit and away from healthcare.
The NHS needs more funding. Operations should be carried out when needed, waiting lists are a sign of a system that isn't working and I am sure always cost more in the long run.
Taxation or the funding needs a rethink imo
I have a longstanding knee injury after tearing my ACL at 18 playing football. At the time the waiting list was almost a year for reconstruction and in that time the constant giving way of my knee led to a cartilage tear as well.
I had the ACL fixed and it has been strong, however since then the damage to my cartilage has led to 4 further operations.
I now need another operation and have decided to pay for it privately. It will cost me about £4k all in but is being done in 3 weeks, rather than a minimum of 4 months which with winter cancellations coming would probably be longer.
Whilst I really do appreciate the NHS two thoughts always stick with me.
The delay in initial care in this country due to an obscene waiting time has cost me a huge amount of pain and the NHS a huge amount of additional cost that would have been avoided in most countries of comparable wealth.
The current waiting time of 4-6 months is not acceptable. I am already compensating when walking and experiencing hip pain. I also would genuinely be scared of depression if I had to wait another 4 months minimum for an operation when I am used to running and cycling 4 times a week which keeps me sane, fit and away from healthcare.
The NHS needs more funding. Operations should be carried out when needed, waiting lists are a sign of a system that isn't working and I am sure always cost more in the long run.
Taxation or the funding needs a rethink imo
FatSuperman
Well-known member
- Feb 25, 2016
- 2,830
Personally I’d like to see the following;
Better (More) funding for the NHS
Money spent more sensibly than currently
A more professional, respectful working environment (my wife is an A&E nurse and some of the behaviour from her colleagues, to other staff is unbelievable)
A far more open culture for the staff. Mistakes will be made, but the current culture encourages mistakes to be covered up, because you get bollocked
Something done about the time-wasters
Better funding for mental health care - a large number of people turning up at the A&E need help that A&E aren’t set up for, but there is nowhere else to go
To be honest, it’s an endless list. I’m under no illusion that it will ever be efficient, but so much of it is ridiculous.
Better (More) funding for the NHS
Money spent more sensibly than currently
A more professional, respectful working environment (my wife is an A&E nurse and some of the behaviour from her colleagues, to other staff is unbelievable)
A far more open culture for the staff. Mistakes will be made, but the current culture encourages mistakes to be covered up, because you get bollocked
Something done about the time-wasters
Better funding for mental health care - a large number of people turning up at the A&E need help that A&E aren’t set up for, but there is nowhere else to go
To be honest, it’s an endless list. I’m under no illusion that it will ever be efficient, but so much of it is ridiculous.
Jolly Red Giant
Well-known member
- Jul 11, 2015
- 2,615
I live in Ireland - we don't have an NHS.
I pay €60 to visit my doctor - every visit - and there is still waiting time for the doctor - I phoned today they can't see me until Tuesday (Ireland has a significantly higher number of GPs per head of population than the UK).
I take blood pressure medication - €40 per month - people can pay up to €140 per month for medication.
I have certain health issues and I have two daughters who have issues with their ligaments which, at some point will require surgery (one has already had an operation to replace a ligament on her ankle) - on the public waiting list it would take up to four years to get a consultant appointment and possible up to ten years to have the operation. My wife has been on a waiting list for 17 years to see a consultant about an eye problem. Because of the health issues with my daughters and I - I pay health insurance of €367 per month so that if surgery is needed we will only have to wait 5-6 months. We cannot afford health insurance for my wife and other two kids. My daughters operation cost €9,500 last year under the health insurance - we had to pay €990.
If you go to the emergency room in any hospital in Ireland - you could be waiting up to 10 hours to see a doctor. People have died in waiting rooms waiting to see a doctor. When you do get to see a doctor and are admitted you could spend up to 5 days on a hospital trolley. The last time I was admitted I spent 4 days on a trolley on IV antibiotics (this was despite having health insurance) and then was discharged without ever being transferred to a ward. The nurses union do a 'trolley watch' - and today there were 538 people on a trolley waiting for a bed in a ward (Ireland has 33 hospitals). Oh - and they charge you €100 for attending the ED and then another €100 a day for every day you are lying on a trolley up to €1,000.
Ireland does have a 'medical card' system - for those on low incomes - to get a medical card you have to have an income of less than €164 a week (or €266 if you are a couple).
The argument of 'charging a bit' is always used in Ireland - and everyone knows that the 'bit' always becomes a big bit very quickly.
To demonstrate - Ireland has been rocked by a series of medical scandals over the past 2 decades - the latest one being a cervical check scandal. In 2010 the government privatised the testing of cervical smears - awarding the contract to a private American company. Doctors, trade unions and left-wing politicians in Ireland warned that this would lead to the unnecessary death of women. In 2018 the scandal broke - hundreds of women were told their smears were clear - they weren't. When the error was discovered the women were never notified that they had tested positive. In the past year 21 women have died as a result of false test results from the American company. Dozens more are terminally ill - and the government is fighting them tooth and nail in the courts to prevent having to pay them compensation. Women are and will continue to suffer because of this scandal - a scandal brought about directly as a result of privatisation.
You have an NHS and from afar I encourage every one of you to fight tooth and nail to defend and protect it with everything you have got.
I pay €60 to visit my doctor - every visit - and there is still waiting time for the doctor - I phoned today they can't see me until Tuesday (Ireland has a significantly higher number of GPs per head of population than the UK).
I take blood pressure medication - €40 per month - people can pay up to €140 per month for medication.
I have certain health issues and I have two daughters who have issues with their ligaments which, at some point will require surgery (one has already had an operation to replace a ligament on her ankle) - on the public waiting list it would take up to four years to get a consultant appointment and possible up to ten years to have the operation. My wife has been on a waiting list for 17 years to see a consultant about an eye problem. Because of the health issues with my daughters and I - I pay health insurance of €367 per month so that if surgery is needed we will only have to wait 5-6 months. We cannot afford health insurance for my wife and other two kids. My daughters operation cost €9,500 last year under the health insurance - we had to pay €990.
If you go to the emergency room in any hospital in Ireland - you could be waiting up to 10 hours to see a doctor. People have died in waiting rooms waiting to see a doctor. When you do get to see a doctor and are admitted you could spend up to 5 days on a hospital trolley. The last time I was admitted I spent 4 days on a trolley on IV antibiotics (this was despite having health insurance) and then was discharged without ever being transferred to a ward. The nurses union do a 'trolley watch' - and today there were 538 people on a trolley waiting for a bed in a ward (Ireland has 33 hospitals). Oh - and they charge you €100 for attending the ED and then another €100 a day for every day you are lying on a trolley up to €1,000.
Ireland does have a 'medical card' system - for those on low incomes - to get a medical card you have to have an income of less than €164 a week (or €266 if you are a couple).
The argument of 'charging a bit' is always used in Ireland - and everyone knows that the 'bit' always becomes a big bit very quickly.
To demonstrate - Ireland has been rocked by a series of medical scandals over the past 2 decades - the latest one being a cervical check scandal. In 2010 the government privatised the testing of cervical smears - awarding the contract to a private American company. Doctors, trade unions and left-wing politicians in Ireland warned that this would lead to the unnecessary death of women. In 2018 the scandal broke - hundreds of women were told their smears were clear - they weren't. When the error was discovered the women were never notified that they had tested positive. In the past year 21 women have died as a result of false test results from the American company. Dozens more are terminally ill - and the government is fighting them tooth and nail in the courts to prevent having to pay them compensation. Women are and will continue to suffer because of this scandal - a scandal brought about directly as a result of privatisation.
You have an NHS and from afar I encourage every one of you to fight tooth and nail to defend and protect it with everything you have got.
Indeed. It is kept 'a bit shit' so that those who have the money and feel compelled can go elsewhere.
And don't start me on admin. Since we started counting beans in the early 80s we have spent far more money on bean counting and employing vast numbers of people to work out how to manage it all more efficiently.....in triplicate.....that it is a wonder that anything ever gets actually ****ing done at all. Deliberate.
The tories are always going on about cutting red tape (most of which comes 'from the EU') and yet sets up bean counting in the NHS and my (HEA) sector to the point that we spend half out time counting, managing, declaring and maximising our beans, and squeezing in doing our actual ****ing jobs when time permits
It is a deliberate strategy to destroy Nationalised organisations. Fact. And this time I mean it. Fact. **** the tories. **** Boris. **** compromising with the electorate. We need change. He may be a beardy weirdy but I'm lending my enormous opinion to Team Corbyn. **** off Prancing Ninny 'football genious' plum. Your relentless tory rimming has failed. Wash your mouth out and **** off. **** off The Daily Mail. **** of Russia. **** off Trump. **** off Cliff Richard. **** Off Joan Collins and your bingo wings. **** off the lot of you. My vote is going RED.
Sorry, I think I just weed myself
Blimey. I had no idea.
darkwolf666
Well-known member
Ha ha ha... it took 8 days to get the CT scans St Richard’s took of my wife to our local hospital in Gillingham.
Also, every time I visit a different hospital with our little boy, who has multiple problems, I have to go through the whole story of his diagnosis and symptoms - joined up and easy, no!
darkwolf666
Well-known member
There lies a problem from another thread, Blair and New Labour were just Tory Lite (Tories with a conscience). The current Labour leader would not countenance such a move, and would no doubt get slated for it too.
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darkwolf666
Well-known member
Indeed. It is kept 'a bit shit' so that those who have the money and feel compelled can go elsewhere.
And don't start me on admin. Since we started counting beans in the early 80s we have spent far more money on bean counting and employing vast numbers of people to work out how to manage it all more efficiently.....in triplicate.....that it is a wonder that anything ever gets actually ****ing done at all. Deliberate.
The tories are always going on about cutting red tape (most of which comes 'from the EU') and yet sets up bean counting in the NHS and my (HEA) sector to the point that we spend half out time counting, managing, declaring and maximising our beans, and squeezing in doing our actual ****ing jobs when time permits
It is a deliberate strategy to destroy Nationalised organisations. Fact. And this time I mean it. Fact. **** the tories. **** Boris. **** compromising with the electorate. We need change. He may be a beardy weirdy but I'm lending my enormous opinion to Team Corbyn. **** off Prancing Ninny 'football genious' plum. Your relentless tory rimming has failed. Wash your mouth out and **** off. **** off The Daily Mail. **** of Russia. **** off Trump. **** off Cliff Richard. **** Off Joan Collins and your bingo wings. **** off the lot of you. My vote is going RED.
Sorry, I think I just weed myself
What have Shepherd Neame been putting in their beer? Can you drop a bottle or two round to mine...
Lower West Stander
Well-known member
Bloody hope not.
I can do without Corbyn’s principles thanks very much....
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That’s ridiculous (not your post [emoji2]). Sorry to hear of your difficulties.
There was a system implemented in the early 2000’s called PAX, which allows the transfer of radiological images between sites.
This works very well (though apparently not for yourself), for cancer patients when their case is transferred to a specialist centre for example.
In terms of your little boy, not your fault, but that is just poor healthcare and constantly having to repeat yourself on symptoms simply should not be the case.
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darkwolf666
Well-known member
I shared your disbelief, and not for my story, as I know that is true !
In my wife’s case it is indeed for cancer and yes we were told the images could be transferred by PACs (their spelling), unfortunately a request has to be made to the imaging department, where I guess the request goes to the bottom of the pile, and possibly even lost hence the delay!
As for our little man, he attends Guys, Medway and multiple local agencies like SALT, hearing and a Special Needs nursery - I have lost count of the number of times I have gone through his problems... and don’t get me started on DLA.
I’m so sorry.
Yes it is PACS - sorry left that side of the system in 2004.
The fact they can’t sort themselves off for a planned appointment is embarrassing. I had my knee replaced this year, and something similar happened, but I got a bit annoyed and it quickly got resolved.
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SH is NHS standard beer isn't it?
I'm waiting for the dark star/bupa tie up. . . Happy daze!
A late friend of our family, and mine, was head of pathology at Worthing, well over 30 years, part of the furniture etc. . . .he learned about computers in order to modernise the system . . . . As opposed to teaching nerds about pathology. . . . There are no rights or wrongs, its progress, ( although the pathologist I knew was far smarter than most it people I've ever met) the world, country and population have changed in complexity and quantity, everything's changed. . . .however. I think the 'budget' isn't the issue, it's the management, and the fact that in the last 25 years or so, loads of services have been privatised. There are huge inefficiencies in most large organisations, particularly when you add to the bill all the 'consultants'
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
Agreed. And I have a feeling this might end up being the single most important issue at this election. The Labour Party should put it on the side of a bus ...