The great Vicente saga - 2012 edition [All quite exciting in the end]

[bhawoddy]

bollocks nailed to desks ? is that before or after the sandpaper is applied ?

lool - before, as punishment for being incorrect with facts.

 

[herecomesaregular]

That may have been the case if Vicente said he wasn't returning shortly after last season finished when he went on his summer break to Spain. The club would have actively sought a replacement. I think once Barber was recruited the situation changed and negotiations changed tack when they realised Vicente/Agent was trying to run down the contract and leave on a technicality (promise to return to training AFTER 1st July and not turn up)

One of the few interesting posts on here and probably nearest the truth imo.

Watching Vicente was worth my season ticket price alone, regardless of how well we actually do. Ironically, if he does go then i actually feel we will finish in a higher position- so oddly, i guess it's win win for me !!

 

[peterward]

I just thought he was free to leave if he wanted from what Gus had said.

Gus did say that, though I'd imagine he really had no basis to do so as those decisions as with all contractual/financial matters belong to David Burke, Paul Barber and TB.

I would hope that lessons will be learned and Gus asked to keep his councel and leave those matters to those who's job it is. Gus is the manager/coach and not in charge of contracts

 

[Acker79]

Sorry, KevTheRev, but I haven't seen anything saying that Vicente is asking for more money from us. Where did that come from - one of your own sources, or did I miss a post from someone in the know?

As much as I disagree with Kevtherev's reading of the situation, or at least think he has taken the most negative slant on Vicente possible (not for the first time), I believe Gus and Vicente's agent have public stated there are negotiations on going. It is thought Gus wanted a new deal, perhaps longer. The agent would be pretty crappy if more money wasn't on the table.

I wasn't knocking. I asked in this thread or maybe another, there's so many Vicente ones, what our win percentage with and with out him actually was?

With
Win 4, 23.53%
Draw 6, 35.29%
Loss 7, 41.18%


Without
Win 13, 44.83%
Draw 8, 27.59%
Loss 8, 27.59%

 

[JCL666]

Because the circumstances under which his family situation has changed is of his and his partners own making, rather foolish would you not think knowing he had a contract to be in Brighton for 1 year and it possibly could be extended to 2.

I couldn't care less whether it's foolish or not. What I do know is that as a father, my family and their well being is more important to me than anything. If that meant walking away from a working commitment I had made then that's what I would do.

Do you support the Albion, or are you Vicente's agent? You seem to be incredibly bias towards the player, to the point where you are spouting b0llocks...

I'm not biased towards the player, I'm being objective and also not labelling someone simply because of the speculation in the press. I haven't at any point suggested that there should not be a fee if he does play for another club, but I certainly wouldn't think less of him if he did leave.

I don't think he owes the club anything PRECISELY because of his contract, that sets out the terms and conditions for the relationship between club and player. I am not naive enough to think that a player has the same feelings about the club as you or I do, hence why I don't buy into expecting player loyalty either.

 

[JCL666]

With
Win 4, 23.53%
Draw 6, 35.29%
Loss 7, 41.18%


Without
Win 13, 44.83%
Draw 8, 27.59%
Loss 8, 27.59%

Those stats look damning until you dig deeper. For example how many of the games did he start? How many did he "change" by coming on (Portsmouth and Leeds for example)?

 

[The Rivet]

Seems to me we are all having a problem with 'The Gentlemen's Agreement' and the wholesome open dialogue we 'expected'! (Hmm) to result from that, V the cold hard truth of business and the question of money.
There are a lot of posters advocating we let Mr V renage on HIS side of a signed two year agreement whilst we are looking the bad guy. Jeez the man has a 'Second' child, so what. We all do at some point (well most of us)
I live away from Brighton and my family because I have to provide. My contract obliges me to be where I am. I do what I have to and advance myself into other position when my contrcat rules allow. Break that, Pay for that. We all sign up to it.
Why is it different for Footballers and celebs Let him go by all means. BUT get some DOSH back!

 

[IanH]

Posted on twitter by VamosElche.com at 23:43

Vicente Rodríguez fichado!!! Llega para liderar este proyecto de Fran Escribá

Spanish is not great but think it says he has signed for Elche

 

[The Rivet]

Fichado I think means REGISTERED

 

[IanH]

Here is link

pic.twitter.com/3yWxUKp1

 

[IanH]

Headline says.... Vicente will be star of new Elche

 

[IanH]

Maybe not that bad. I tracked the website down and the story says...with the help of an online translator...

Vicente Rodriguez gave the yes I want his move to Elche CF, so it will become the signing star of the new project. Such is the confidence that there is in the bosom of the Sports Commission, that its responsible tone García Hita, he said yesterday in a Radio Elche that hiring is pending small fringes.

 

[peterward]

Headline says.... Vicente will be star of new Elche

Ian, that fans blog tweet "he has signed" highlighting the picture of a newspaper headline saying "vicente will be the new star of Elche" has misinterpreted the headline from an elche newspaper article, published 12 hours ago, that I posted on page 38 of this thread aleady, the full article (with translator).... unless something else has just happened?

http://elchecf.laverdad.es/noticias/2012-06-30/vicente-sera-estrella-nuevo-20120630.html

Vincente will be the star of the new Elche
says Sergio Pelegrin renewed for two seasons after seeing the club improved. His signing is "imminent" says the head of the sports commission.

Vicente Rodriguez said yes to his move to Elche CF, so it will be the star signing of the new project. Such is the confidence that is within the sports commission, when its director, Hita Toño Garcia said yesterday on Radio Elche that their recruitment is pending small fringe.

The player must solve his contract situation with the Brighton & Hove Albion in the Football League Championship, the English third division, coached by Gustavo Poyet. In principle contract ends, and the desire of the English was to present a better offer to renew for two seasons, but he merely seductive power of Escribá be with Fran.

According Toño Garcia Hita, in the case of Vincent's financial offer is high because "the desire to be with the coach, the project of Elche and know the city" are more than attractive enough to opt to play in the second division.

"Right now to close his move are small fringe" so we can formalize the operation. And the arrival of a player who has been capped by Spain, which could be in the final stretch of his career in his 31 years of age, is an important commitment you want to make the club face to make the best staff possible.

Moreover, Toño Garcia is convinced that if Vicente "yields to 70%" will be a player to score differences and "whatever is beyond this figure will be much better for us."

 

[IanH]

Cheers, just got to the same place, apologies for not seeing earlier post.

 

[Acker79]

Those stats look damning until you dig deeper. For example how many of the games did he start? How many did he "change" by coming on (Portsmouth and Leeds for example)?

v Leeds second half - 2-0 down up to 3-2 up to 3-3
last 25 minutes v Palace - 1-0 up t 3-1 down
first 75 v ipswich - 3-1 down when he wnt off and it ended that way
Whole game v hull 0-0
last 25 v leicester - 0-0 when he came on, we won 1-0
last 30 v leeds - 0-0 when he came on, won 2-1
last 30 v portsmouth - 0-0 when he came on, won 2-0
first 75 v blackpool - 2-1 down when he went off, lost 3-1
first 84 v derby - 2-0 up when he went off, stayed 2-0
first 79 v forest - 1-0 up when he went off, ended 1-1
all v middlesbrough - ended 1-1
all v burnley - ended 0-1
all v reading - ended 0-1
first 66 v west ham - 0-5 down when he went off, ended 0-6
last 38 v watford - 1-2 down whn he came on, ended 2-2
all v birmingham - ended 1-1
all v barnsley - ended 0-0


Even those don't necessarily tell the story, some teams score on the break so maybe get goals when no playing well, or concede on the break when they are dominating. I wonder if it's something about how we play, with people more interested in letting him win the game than play their part, or if we just become one dimensional with him etc.

 

[Jesus Gul]

with the Brighton & Hove Albion in the Football League Championship, the English third division, coached by Gustavo Poyet.."

Third division?

 

[JCL666]

v Leeds second half - 2-0 down up to 3-2 up to 3-3
last 25 minutes v Palace - 1-0 up t 3-1 down
first 75 v ipswich - 3-1 down when he wnt off and it ended that way
Whole game v hull 0-0
last 25 v leicester - 0-0 when he came on, we won 1-0
last 30 v leeds - 0-0 when he came on, won 2-1
last 30 v portsmouth - 0-0 when he came on, won 2-0
first 75 v blackpool - 2-1 down when he went off, lost 3-1
first 84 v derby - 2-0 up when he went off, stayed 2-0
first 79 v forest - 1-0 up when he went off, ended 1-1
all v middlesbrough - ended 1-1
all v burnley - ended 0-1
all v reading - ended 0-1
first 66 v west ham - 0-5 down when he went off, ended 0-6
last 38 v watford - 1-2 down whn he came on, ended 2-2
all v birmingham - ended 1-1
all v barnsley - ended 0-0


Even those don't necessarily tell the story, some teams score on the break so maybe get goals when no playing well, or concede on the break when they are dominating. I wonder if it's something about how we play, with people more interested in letting him win the game than play their part, or if we just become one dimensional with him etc.

What is interesting is that you could spin those stats to support both a "we played better" or "we played worse" argument.

better> Leeds (H), Leicester, Leeds (A), Portsmouth, forest, Watford. You could suggest from the stats that he had a positive impact in these games in that we won or he came on and enabled us to get at least a point when previously we were losing.

worse> Palace, Ipswich, Burnley, Blackpool, Reading, West Ham.. we lost

I don't think I can see anything that suggests we were poor when he was on the pitch, then improved when he was subbed, whereas the reverse could be true.


Generally though I think you're right, there's nothing conclusive which is actually the point I was initially making. The high level win ratio stats are continually thrown around to justify statements about Vicente having a negative impact on our points tally. Even a limited look at the data suggests to me that there is far more needed than a simple comparison of win ratios.

Anyway... Do you compile these on a match by match basis? I was looking to see if I could get hold of Championship opta data from somewhere, but the four four two apps only have premier league data. Maybe a stats area would be an interesting addition to NSC??

I love stats and data.

 

[Seasider78]

With or without stats I think we saw enough last season to say whilst we would all like him to stay we will cope without him.

 

[Jeep]

I don't suppose anyone has seen him at Gatwick yet, in readiness for training tomorrow.....

 

[S'hampton Seagull]

I don't suppose anyone has seen him at Gatwick yet, in readiness for training tomorrow.....

You never know, but I doubt we'll see him at training.