The great Vicente saga - 2012 edition [All quite exciting in the end]

[Acker79]

What is interesting is that you could spin those stats to support both a "we played better" or "we played worse" argument.

Indeed, or you can accept our playing better or worse wasn't directly related to whether he plays or not.

Generally though I think you're right, there's nothing conclusive which is actually the point I was initially making. The high level win ratio stats are continually thrown around to justify statements about Vicente having a negative impact on our points tally. Even a limited look at the data suggests to me that there is far more needed than a simple comparison of win ratios.

Quite. I also forgot to mention that the majority of games we lost or drew with him were toward the end of the season when our opponents step up their game and the inexperience at a higher level affected several members of our team. Blackpool, Reading, Middlesbrough, West Ham, Birmingham were all chasing promotion, with four of them being recent prem teams, and the other being a prem team further back and having plenty of experience at the business end of the season in the championship. I think derby were in with a shout of the play offs when we played them. Forest and burnley (or barnsley, I always get them confused) were fighting a relegation battle. So, perhaps the rest of the team were more overwhelmed in those last ten games or so, and Vicente couldn't compensate for that on his own.

Anyway... Do you compile these on a match by match basis? I was looking to see if I could get hold of Championship opta data from somewhere, but the four four two apps only have premier league data. Maybe a stats area would be an interesting addition to NSC??

I love stats and data.

I do. Not anything professionally accurate. I have an excel file I update with each match noting starts/subs, time on etc, results, scorers, etc. Each season my file gets more detailed.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

How many Albion games have you seen ? He is not even in the Top 10 of best Albion players ever

Lots and lots - all since 1990 though, so it's been dark times for much of it.

 

[Ernest]

Lots and lots - all since 1990 though, so it's been dark times for much of it.

Better than Bobby Zamora ?

 

[the wanderbus]

Some of the back tracking on here is hilarious ! From legend to he isn't all that anyway !! If he doe's re sign for you again, he will be the greatest ever weed player again !

Without a doubt the best player in the championship. I only hope he's here to show Haha what a player that can stay on his feet can become...........and to kick your sorry arses.


still pissed off that we're being f***ed about though

 

[macky]

I agree entirely, but the message from Gus was that he wouldnt stand in his way if he decided he didnt want to stay.

This is a sign of the times unfortunately. A gentelmans agreement means nothing to people these days. Years ago you would have been thought of in a very different light if you went back on a hand shake or verbal aggreement.

But what we hear and what goes on behind the scenes are 2 verydifferent things, it would appear.

Thing is why get him to sign for two if we had no intention of holding him to it I thought it was strange at the time And from his point why sign it I dont think we ever said we would let him go for free

 

[macky]

yeah we signed mesi for 100 mil but if he dont like it here after a month he can go on a free

 

[bhawoddy]

Any gentlemen's agreement would, I presume, have been between Vicente and Gus, not Vicente and TB or David Burke.

As The Godfather teaches us, Vito Corleone may have promised the Five Families not to take revenge for the death of Santino, but that didn't mean that Michael Corleone couldn't.

Agreed again, but why come out and say these thing publicly if they dont mean anything.

Doesnt make us look very professional does it.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Are we there yet ? Are we there yet ? Are we there yet ? Are we there yet ?

 

[macky]

Agreed again, but why come out and say these thing publicly if they dont mean anything.

Doesnt make us look very professional does it.

It would make us look for less professional to let him go for nothing after al lthe investment we have put in to him

 

[Triggaaar]

How many Albion games have you seen ? He is not even in the Top 10 of best Albion players ever

Really? Who are the top 10 Albion players ever?

 

[macky]

I dont think gus meant that he would let him go for free but that if a offer came in then he would'nt stand in his way

 

[Mileoakman]

Thing is why get him to sign for two if we had no intention of holding him to it I thought it was strange at the time And from his point why sign it I dont think we ever said we would let him go for free

I think we did it this way to protect ourselves. Don't forget we were taking a hell of a risk getting someone who had been essentially crocked for sometime and was probably costing us a bomb. No doubt if he had never got fit, (like he was for most part of the season), we could have cut our losses and waved goodbye. Would have been interesting in that case whether Vicente would have tried to grab the second year although I suspect with the family business he would have just slunk off back to Spain.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Elche paper/blog 2 hours old


To our latest knowledge, Vincent has spoken to his club and has shown his intention to return to Spain, arguing that it has recently become a father and wants to be near family. The Spaniard could even pay part of his buyout clause to break the contract that is linked to the English team.

Elche would offer two-year contract and an annual tab is somewhere between 300,000 and 400,000 euros. To which the player would agree to it.

.

These two paragraphs are key, I think. It seems clear that money isn't the motivating factor for his wanting to go back to Spain. Unless you think we're paying him significantly less than 300,000euros...

There are a lot of people acting like jilted lovers in this thread. They need to get over themselves. Vicente isn't being a mercenary, he doesn't need to go f*** himself or anything else. He isn't the first and won't be the last player to ask to leave the club.

 

[Ernest]

Really? Who are the top 10 Albion players ever?

Someone who has played a handful of Albion matches for half a season wouldn't rate above Zamora, Foster, Lawrenson, Case, Ward, Horton, Nelson, E.Young, Stevens, Irvine etc. Even Dennis Mortimer as a European Cup winning captain would rank above the Spanish traitor in footballs legends

 

[bhawoddy]

It would make us look for less professional to let him go for nothing after al lthe investment we have put in to him

Depends on what agreements hes made with the club. If hes buggered us around then yes, cash in as much as we can get, absolutely!!!!.

If we have broken a gents agrrement/handshake on him leaving then i think hes completely right to be annoyed and we dont deserve a penny.

 

[somerset]

There are a lot of people acting like jilted lovers in this thread. They need to get over themselves.

How 'holier than thou' , he is simply wanting things his own way, like most players these days......... if we want to moan and object, then it is our right to, I am not under contract, unlike Vicente.

 

[saafend_seagull]

If that blog is true, he will 100% be off. At least we aren't going to lose him to an English club.

 

[bhawoddy]

Someone who has played a handful of Albion matches for half a season wouldn't rate above Zamora, Foster, Lawrenson, Case, Ward, Horton, Nelson, E.Young, Stevens, Irvine etc. Even Dennis Mortimer as a European Cup winning captain would rank above the Spanish traitor in footballs legends

But someone who has played11 or so years for valencia/champions league final/ wanted by R.Madrid for 30M odd etc.... would rate above every player you have mentioned without question.

Spanish traitor!! - V.Amusing. lool

 

[macky]

Depends on what agreements hes made with the club. If hes buggered us around then yes, cash in as much as we can get, absolutely!!!!.

If we have broken a gents agrrement/handshake on him leaving then i think hes completely right to be annoyed and we dont deserve a penny.

Why sign these contracts then why not just say come here on a week to week basis
surely if he/we signed contracts tgey were signed to protect such things as him geting fit and going for nothing like he's trying to do now The contracts were signed for areason As i said why bother signing otherwise

 

[bhawoddy]

If that blog is true, he will 100% be off. At least we aren't going to lose him to an English club.

Thats the biggest bonus. wonder how everyone would feel if he were to sign for say, southampton or Reading!!! Id feel sick TBH.