[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Jolly Red Giant]

So the wealthy have increased their wealth by dying?

Impressive.

The poor just die - 7 years earlier

 

[Weststander]

The people of Brighton, Hove and Lewes are no different than any other part of Britain, indeed of Europe or farther afield - there are rich and poor, people who think that they are middle class and are just slightly better off working class people, people who are completely alienated from the political system and those who try to maintain the status quo and those who fight to change it.

B&H is a microcosm of everywhere else - including where I live.

The BBC this autumn spent entire weeks in places such as Stoke, Bradford and Blackpool. It really was a world away from the city I lived in all my life Brighton. Their folk, including many young, businessmen to tradesman and market traders, very anti EU, really strong against mass immigration, often anti Corbyn. So different from my city where I’ve voted for a Green MP, a very cosmopolitan city, which has undoubtedly led the way on tolerance and has always accustom to newcomers settling here.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

As a point of interest, can you think of any ex- nationalised industry that is more efficient ( ie costs the taxpayer/ consumer less) and costs less to run than when under government ownership?

I'd say that in relative terms, gas, electricity and phone are much cheaper. But that's not to saythey would have been anyway, over time.

Train is unbelievably shitter.

 

[lawros left foot]

I don’t think anyone of sane mind is bricking it, the closest Corbyn will get to his policies being implemented is if the other partner coalition parties agree to them.

I think you’re missing the point.
It’s more about Labours manifesto not being far left commie plans for the eradication of dear old Blighty, more the fact that so many centrist countries have similar policies and they don’t appear to be teetering on the brink of fully blown Marxist Stalinism.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

could you share some of the inventions and creations from socialism?

Even in a most distorted and bureaucratic form - the nationalised economy of the Soviet Union went from a feudal basket case to launching the first satellite into space.

Many of the worlds leading scientists were / are socialists - take this guy for example -

"I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. In such an economy, the means of production are owned by society itself and are utilized in a planned fashion. A planned economy, which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work and would guarantee a livelihood to every man, woman, and child. The education of the individual, in addition to promoting his own innate abilities, would attempt to develop in him a sense of responsibility for his fellow-men in place of the glorification of power and success in our present society."

Albert Einstein, Why Socialism?, 1949.

 

[lawros left foot]

I only caught the last half of her interview, and I thought she did fine. Andrew would ask her a question and then just continually talk over the top of her answers.

I get that in recent years politicians stopped answering questions, choosing to just repeat sound-bites instead, so it's made sense for journalists to talk over their sound-bites and repeat questions where necessary. But that's not what was happening. Siân appeared to be trying to answer openly, but he just wouldn't let her speak. Although I'm usually fine with Neil, he just came across to me as a belligerent reporter, more interested in appearing tough than in actually getting answers to questions.

Did she come across poorly at the start of the interview?

Neal is a bully.

 

[Weststander]

I'd say that in relative terms, gas, electricity and phone are much cheaper. But that's not to saythey would have been anyway, over time.

Train is unbelievably shitter.

Then there’s the madness of Gatwick Express, Southern, Thameslink and SE Trains operating in these counties. I went to get a Gatwick Express train at Victoria and a jobsworth relished telling me that my Southern ticket didn’t count. As if the Gatwick Express is anything special, just another cramped tin can.

Whether it be private or public owned, I don’t care that much, there should be a single operator, with the network too.

It’s a false free market. Few realise that the government still pump in many £b’s a year on our railways (that’s the element NOT on new projects such as Crossrail and HS2).

 

[Weststander]

I think you’re missing the point.
It’s more about Labours manifesto not being far left commie plans for the eradication of dear old Blighty, more the fact that so many centrist countries have similar policies and they don’t appear to be teetering on the brink of fully blown Marxist Stalinism.

In taxation, they don’t though.

The NSC record is stuck, but those centrist or centre-left nations tax almost everyone, far higher. If we seek that Swedish or Finnish socio-economic system, firstly our politicians should tell the truth on how we all need to fund it, then the voting public will get behind it (I hope).

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

In taxation, they don’t though.

The NSC record is stuck, but those centrist or centre-left nations tax almost everyone, far higher. If we seek that Swedish or Finnish socio-economic system, firstly our politicians should tell the truth on how we all need to fund it, then the voting public will get behind it (I hope).

The Swedish and Finnish models also cut taxes for the wealthy - the only difference is that they impose more tax on working class people to fund social services. Swedish and Finnish Tories are no different to British and Irish Tories - they just haven't been able to get away with hacking public services to bits as much as in Britain or Ireland.

 

[Lindfield by the Pond]

Another dip into politics for me.

I think we need to get the Brexit withdrawl deal done. The trade deals will have to follow, but we have to respect the referendum. Democracy has to be respected.
Once done, if the will of the people is to re-enter EU, then we hold another one, and abide by that one. If people are scared of leaving the EU will result in poorer environmental standards, workers rights etc, well then we vote out the party in charge, and elect one that has better environmental / employment standards than Europe.

If people believe immigration is a problem, then lets bring it back under UK control. Lets increase it if necessary, but let it be under our control. I do feel it unfair that anyone from Europe can come here, when those in other parts of the world are restricted. We have a current reliance on European labour for harvesting etc. So under our our control, we can welcome them in.

The point for me is sovereignty. I have voted all three main parties in my lifetime, but I hate this drift to European Integration. Once we have voted to get out of Europe, I will return to voting whomever I see have the best policies, but at least my vote will count. Never voted for Donald Tusk - not permitted, couldn't do anything about him, and havn't been able to do anything about Ursula Leyen.

The 3 years lost in British politics arguing about Brexit, has cost us big time, and we need to move on (Leave or Remain). We need to be discussing NHS, education, defence - but we have spent all this time just discussing fecking Brexit.

The cost to democracy, by saying leavers didn't know what they were voting for is insulting - fairly simple to me - Leave or remain? Can't be going down the neverendum route. Best of 3? Do one, implement, and then if you want to change, we go again, and once again we should respect the result.

My humble opinion anyway. Will be watching tomorrow night with interest.

 

[pocketseagull]

that is some stunning arrogance, telling us who live here who and what we are.

I don't really see how the post is arrogant, it's spot on. You could probably say the same thing about most places.

 

[beorhthelm]

Even in a most distorted and bureaucratic form - the nationalised economy of the Soviet Union went from a feudal basket case to launching the first satellite into space.

Many of the worlds leading scientists were / are socialists - take this guy for example -


Albert Einstein, Why Socialism?, 1949.

and yet he chose to live in the most capitalist country in the world? interesting.

i wonder what inventions the Soviets made through their space programme. there is the amusing apocryphal tale of the pencil, which doesnt really support the case. i mean, i cant think of dozens, hundreds of things invented, created under capitalism. so if it has stiffled creativity, the list of socialist inventions should just pour from the mind. i could only think of the Rubik cube.

it occurs to me that even the communist manifesto was created in a capitialist country, by authors employed by capitalism.

 

[Eeyore]

and yet he chose to live in the most capitalist country in the world? interesting.

i wonder what inventions the Soviets made through their space programme. there is the amusing apocryphal tale of the pencil, which doesnt really support the case. i mean, i cant think of dozens, hundreds of things invented, created under capitalism. so if it has stiffled creativity, the list of socialist inventions should just pour from the mind. i could only think of the Rubik cube.

I can think of a couple of socialist inventions.

The NHS and the welfare state.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Then there’s the madness of Gatwick Express, Southern, Thameslink and SE Trains operating in these counties. I went to get a Gatwick Express train at Victoria and a jobsworth relished telling me that my Southern ticket didn’t count. As if the Gatwick Express is anything special, just another cramped tin can.

Whether it be private or public owned, I don’t care that much, there should be a single operator, with the network too.

It’s a false free market. Few realise that the government still pump in many £b’s a year on our railways (that’s the element NOT on new projects such as Crossrail and HS2).

This. On stilts.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Another dip into politics for me.

I think we need to get the Brexit withdrawl deal done. The trade deals will have to follow, but we have to respect the referendum. Democracy has to be respected.
Once done, if the will of the people is to re-enter EU, then we hold another one, and abide by that one. If people are scared of leaving the EU will result in poorer environmental standards, workers rights etc, well then we vote out the party in charge, and elect one that has better environmental / employment standards than Europe.

If people believe immigration is a problem, then lets bring it back under UK control. Lets increase it if necessary, but let it be under our control. I do feel it unfair that anyone from Europe can come here, when those in other parts of the world are restricted. We have a current reliance on European labour for harvesting etc. So under our our control, we can welcome them in.

The point for me is sovereignty. I have voted all three main parties in my lifetime, but I hate this drift to European Integration. Once we have voted to get out of Europe, I will return to voting whomever I see have the best policies, but at least my vote will count. Never voted for Donald Tusk - not permitted, couldn't do anything about him, and havn't been able to do anything about Ursula Leyen.

The 3 years lost in British politics arguing about Brexit, has cost us big time, and we need to move on (Leave or Remain). We need to be discussing NHS, education, defence - but we have spent all this time just discussing fecking Brexit.

The cost to democracy, by saying leavers didn't know what they were voting for is insulting - fairly simple to me - Leave or remain? Can't be going down the neverendum route. Best of 3? Do one, implement, and then if you want to change, we go again, and once again we should respect the result.

My humble opinion anyway. Will be watching tomorrow night with interest.

I agree. Need to get brexit sorted one way or another and then need to put focus on NHS and services. Voting Labour

 

[beorhthelm]

I can think of a couple of socialist inventions.

The NHS and the welfare state.

so we have three.

 

[Bakero]

so we have three.

Tetris is a pretty good game.

 

[Triggaaar]

Agree, but I just can’t believe we are sleepwalking towards another 5 years of hell.. and all the while while the poor and disadvantaged are being trodden on the Tories will be able to say, “but you voted for us and gave us a mandate to shit on you”...!

I know, but what choice do we have?

I imagine Peter Kyle will get in here, which is fine by me, but when the overall figures are shown on the TV, of how many millions voted for each party, I can't stomach the thought of me being one of those who voted for Corbyn. I won't be voting Tory either, so my vote will essentially be wasted, since it's a two horse race in Hove, but I'll at least vote for someone.

 

[beorhthelm]

Tetris is a pretty good game.

dammit, four.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Neal is a bully.

This is a good point that people forget...

Brillo Pad....snide Murdoch lacky.