[Cricket] The 'Especially for Billy the Fish' 2nd Test Eng v India at Lords thread

[A1X]

Pant's off, then Shami leathers it to Burns at mid-wicket

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Pant gone for 37, caught behind, off Wood.

India 336/6

Need to wrap this up quick, now.

And another! Shami chips Moeen tamely to midwicket, second ball

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

This is a HUGE first innings score already given a) overcast all weekend, b) pitch only going to get worse and likely turn.

Statistics don't like. Hard to win a test match at Lords when you don't bat first. Hubris to give that up when you win the toss.

 

[maltaseagull]

Its all about context, surely?

If the England top order, ever handed Buttler a platform of 280/3, then he'd have license to do similar. If he's constantly coming in at 110/5, its very different.

That's true but 110/5 seems a little optimistic

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

This is a HUGE first innings score already given a) overcast all weekend, b) pitch only going to get worse and likely turn.

Statistics don't like. Hard to win a test match at Lords when you don't bat first. Hubris to give that up when you win the toss.

Interestingly, England have won the toss and bowled in the last 3 matches against India at Lords.

2014, didn't take advantage of the conditions and lost. 2018, bowled them out for about 100 and won.

The overall statistics for this sort of thing tend to be hard to interpret, since teams who win the toss normally only insert if conditions obviously suit their own bowlers. Because batting first is seen as the default option, a captain who bowls first gets criticised for the decision if it doesn't work, even if that's more the result of bowlers not taking advantage or the opposition playing well rather than the conditions suggesting that it was the wrong decision.

The other reason it's hard to draw many conclusions from the statistics, is that England have only lost twice at Lords since 2010. Once against South Africa (who won the toss and batted, but more to the point were a better team in general) and the match against India in 2014.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Interestingly, England have won the toss and bowled in the last 3 matches against India at Lords.

2014, didn't take advantage of the conditions and lost. 2018, bowled them out for about 100 and won.

The overall statistics for this sort of thing tend to be hard to interpret, since teams who win the toss normally only insert if conditions obviously suit their own bowlers. Because batting first is seen as the default option, a captain who bowls first gets criticised for the decision if it doesn't work, even if that's more the result of bowlers not taking advantage or the opposition playing well rather than the conditions suggesting that it was the wrong decision.

The other reason it's hard to draw many conclusions from the statistics, is that England have only lost twice at Lords since 2010. Once against South Africa (who won the toss and batted, but more to the point were a better team in general) and the match against India in 2014.

It's going to be 3 times since 2010 if it doesn't rain!

Think the follow-on is already starting to be a big target in itself.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

It's going to be 3 times since 2010 if it doesn't rain!

Think the follow-on is already starting to be a big target in itself.

Well yes, but when we're worrying about the batting lineup getting to 150 that tends to imply that the problem is that India are a much better team, rather than the decision at the toss.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Well yes, but when we're worrying about the batting lineup getting to 150 that tends to imply that the problem is that India are a much better team, rather than the decision at the toss.

Of course, but you don't help yourself in a game when you're up against it if you also go against statistics and whatever else. I always think that if you are on top of your game, yeah, make decisive toss choices, because winning a toss and bowling basically takes all the pressure onto your bowlers. Totally different from losing a toss and bowling first - you're simply not under the same pressure to take 2 or 3 wickets by lunch.

Regardless of overhead conditions, this has been a great pitch to bat on. You can't just look up when deciding what to do. The ball simply hasn't misbehaved in any real way. I don't think they've batted exceptionally well, conditions simply favoured batting, there wasn't a huge number of chances in those first 2 chances.

The toss was a mistake, like dropping a catch, missing a stumping, might not cost you the match, but certainly doesn't help.

 

[A1X]

This is a HUGE first innings score already given a) overcast all weekend, b) pitch only going to get worse and likely turn.

Statistics don't like. Hard to win a test match at Lords when you don't bat first. Hubris to give that up when you win the toss.

Yep, the only way to do so is to have bowled a team out by about tea on Day 1, anything else and you're staring down the barrel.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Cheers for the thread [MENTION=35196]Is it PotG?[/MENTION] Title is a bit iffy though, certainly not up to Dick Head standard!

Not been able to follow this match much, but I can see from the score we'll have a job just to get a draw from this point. Can't see these players scoring over 300

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Sir Jimmy

31st Test michelle

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1426173919447457807[/tweet]

 

[hans kraay fan club]

And that's the lot. 364 all out. Great recovery from 280/3 odd overnight

 

[A1X]

During the innings break I think it's important for this test to bring up the Red for Ruth campaign, for those who missed it at lunchtime these two videos are so incredibly powerful

[tweet]1426157778448572422[/tweet]

[tweet]1426162912670986240[/tweet]

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Of course, but you don't help yourself in a game when you're up against it if you also go against statistics and whatever else. I always think that if you are on top of your game, yeah, make decisive toss choices, because winning a toss and bowling basically takes all the pressure onto your bowlers. Totally different from losing a toss and bowling first - you're simply not under the same pressure to take 2 or 3 wickets by lunch.

Given the choice between sending Anderson and Robinson out to take advantage of whatever movement there is on the first morning, and sending our disaster zone of a top order out to deal with said conditions, I know which one I'd have been more comfortable with. I suspect those two are probably better equipped to deal with any pressure than Burns and Sibley are at the moment.

Sometimes it doesn't work, whether because the bowler's not up to it (cough Curran cough) or because there's not the movement everybody expected, or the ball just beats that bat and the opposition gets through it. But it doesn't mean the decision at the time was wrong.

I would say England's strength is very obviously swing/seam bowling, and our main weaknesses are the top order and spin bowling. Given that, I'd suggest bowling first on a murky day when there's a chance of movement was entirely justified.

Regardless of overhead conditions, this has been a great pitch to bat on. You can't just look up when deciding what to do. The ball simply hasn't misbehaved in any real way. I don't think they've batted exceptionally well, conditions simply favoured batting, there wasn't a huge number of chances in those first 2 chances.

We'll see about that

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Given the choice between sending Anderson and Robinson out to take advantage of whatever movement there is on the first morning, and sending our disaster zone of a top order out to deal with said conditions, I know which one I'd have been more comfortable with. I suspect those two are probably better equipped to deal with any pressure than Burns and Sibley are at the moment.

Sometimes it doesn't work, whether because the bowler's not up to it (cough Curran cough) or because there's not the movement everybody expected, or the ball just beats that bat and the opposition gets through it. But it doesn't mean the decision at the time was wrong.

I would say England's strength is very obviously swing/seam bowling, and our main weaknesses are the top order and spin bowling. Given that, I'd suggest bowling first on a murky day when there's a chance of movement was entirely justified.

100% this.

It was a fully justified call, and a few too many people categorically declaring it 'wrong' 8 hours AFTER the toss.

 

[vegster]

Well played Jimmy! We will miss you when the time comes.....now we just need to give the Indians some scoreboard pressure and post 500 for our first innings!

 

[Pavilionaire]

Burns and Sibley going along nicely. 2-0.

 

[jakarta]

[tweet]1426173919447457807[/tweet]

Wow, Sir James fancies India doesn't he!!!

 

[Simster]

Burns and Sibley going along nicely. 2-0.

20 minutes later and neither of these two walking wickets are out. It must be raining.