The death of lower league football?

[Pavilionaire]

To be an effective 'feeder' club then that club must be playing at a reasonable level, i.e. Championship / League 1. Any lower and any finely tuned youth players going on loan could find themselves clogged and long-balled out of a job.

This begs the question which particular clubs would become feeder clubs - League 1 and 2 outfits like Coventry, Sheffield Utd, Portsmouth or Bradford City? Or Championship clubs with massive debts, like Bolton and Ipswich? All of them proud clubs with rich history behind them.

 

[Notters]

Horrible idea. It puts a formal glass ceiling on the feeder club, as they will never be allowed to rise to the level of their "owning" club. And the feeder club would completely lose its own identity.

In the exaple the OP gives, if Orient were formalised as West Hams feeder club, and they made it to the Championship, what would be the point of them even bothering to compete if they ultimately would never be allowed a further promotion to the PL. Obviously thats an almost impossible scenario to envisage anyway, although the likes of Swansea, Hull and Cardiff show you can rise to the heights over time. But the essence of following your team is aspiration and ambition - take that away and you DO kill the game. And what would happen if (for example) Orient went up and West Ham went down, so the owning club and feeder club ended up in the same league ? Thats not an impossible scenario.

Thankfully we're too big to be a feeder club now, but if we were stuck at Withdean in the 3rd division, and got "adopted", then I'm buggered if I'd be going along to effectively watch (say) Tottenham Youth/Reserves playing on BHA's behalf. Stuff that.

In the Orient scenario, what would happen if they were in thd Championship and West Ham got relegated, as they often do. Would Orient be automatically relegated as well?

 

[KZNSeagull]

Did I imagine it, or did Crewe sign an agreement to be Liverpool's feeder club a while ago?

If the FA want to do something about the lack of English talent in the premier league, they should encourage and provide financial incentives to lower league clubs to form proper academies concentrating on technical ability, run by UEFA licenced coaches. This would work both ways - the top clubs can loan out their players to teams knowing that the players will be developed technically and the lower leagues can develop technically good players to sell to the top teams.

 

[Bakero]

Really? No chance.

Take our squad from Wednesday night, by example. I've highlighted for you, the ones who qaulify for England.

Brighton & Hove Albion
29 Kuszczak
03 Greer
14 Calderon
17 Ward
20 Upson
04 Andrews
08 Crofts
18 Caskey
09 Barnes*
21 David Lopez
23 Conway

Substitutes
01 Brezovan
02 Bruno
06 El-Abd
25 LuaLua **
27 March
38 Ince
30 Buckley

*MIGHT count, if his Austria U21 cap was a freindly?
**Definitely qualifies for the Congo. Possibly England as well.

Lua Lua must qualify for England. He's lived here since he was a baby, although I think he was born in what would've been Zaire then. I've often wondered why he's never been called up by the DRC. Bolassie's a regular I think.

Barnes' cap was for the U20s, wasn't it? Would that prohibit him from playing for England?

 

[Pavilionaire]

This year Wigan won the FA Cup. Last night they got a creditable draw in the Europa Cup, while Swansea crushed Valencia away 3-0. Therefore, so many fans of clubs, i.e. the Albion, can still dare to dream the dream with some hope of it turning into reality. The creation of feeder clubs would kill this concept for fans of those feeder clubs.

The Champions League may have ended the chance of winning the Premier League for all bar 5 or 6 clubs but there is still plenty for the rest of us to aim for.

 

[Easy 10]

In the Orient scenario, what would happen if they were in thd Championship and West Ham got relegated, as they often do. Would Orient be automatically relegated as well?

Well, quite. What would happen ?

I guess the feeder relationship between the two clubs would have to be terminated for however long they occupy the same division. Orient would then have to find another PL club to pair up with, or make do with whoever they've got on their own books.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Can I just say that if the Albion ever decide upon a feeder club then obviously The Toffees are out of our league but I'd be happy with The Cherries or The Tangerines...

 

[supaseagull]

You need to take the emotion out of this and understand why the FA are proposing this.

Firstly, there are and always have been informal agreements between clubs to act as feeders. Look at the relationship between Crewe & Liverpool for example.

However, the fact of the matter is that English CLub Pyramid current set up is completely broken and flawed to the point where the money that should be developing 5 to 14 year olds is being spent on part time, amateur & lower league football, instea (as it should be) spent on youth football as it is in Spain, Holland, Brazil and Germany.

The English league and the FA has to modernise as keeping things as they are clearly are not working.

 

[Coldeanseagull]

Can I just say that if the Albion ever decide upon a feeder club then obviously The Toffees are out of our league but I'd be happy with The Cherries or The Tangerines...

very good

 

[Triggaaar]

World gone mad

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

You need to take the emotion out of this and understand why the FA are proposing this.

Firstly, there are and always have been informal agreements between clubs to act as feeders. Look at the relationship between Crewe & Liverpool for example.

However, the fact of the matter is that English CLub Pyramid current set up is completely broken and flawed to the point where the money that should be developing 5 to 14 year olds is being spent on part time, amateur & lower league football, instea (as it should be) spent on youth football as it is in Spain, Holland, Brazil and Germany.

The English league and the FA has to modernise as keeping things as they are clearly are not working.

Problem is your first sentence. Without emotion you might as well give up. Supporters of lower teams support that team due to many reasons but are just as passionate if not more so than those of the top teams. Therefore their emotions should be more highly regarded than any who follow the tedium of international football.

 

[leigull]

Not many clubs would actively want to be a feeder team, although Watford did pretty well out of it last year. But if faced with the choice of going bust or signing a deal to be a Premier League team's feeder club for 5 years, what would you go for? Could the Prem team even provide a bit of cash to improve training facilities and the pitch to look after their youngsters as best as possible?

 

[Gwylan]

The English league and the FA has to modernise as keeping things as they are clearly are not working.

In what respect? As we keep being told, the PL is one of the most successful and popular leagues in the world, the Championship gets better attendances than many top divisions and, as was noted above, the bottom two divisions are better attended than just about any other lower leagues.
Internationally, British clubs have the CL three times in the last seven years a British club is current EL champion, so there's scarcely a decline in playing standards.
We also have a high degree of mobility: a British club won 3-0 at Valencia last night, a team that was in the bottom division not so long ago - there aren't many countries that can boast of a team from the bottom winning against major European teams.
So, what's not working?

 

[Brovion]

Not many clubs would actively want to be a feeder team, although Watford did pretty well out of it last year. But if faced with the choice of going bust or signing a deal to be a Premier League team's feeder club for 5 years, what would you go for? Could the Prem team even provide a bit of cash to improve training facilities and the pitch to look after their youngsters as best as possible?

That's the point I've been trying to make (and been ignored). It doesn't have to be forever and it could be beneficial. I'm struggling to understand the complete negativity as I think the idea is at least worth looking at as opposed to just being dismissed out of hand as 'not British'.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

In what respect? As we keep being told, the PL is one of the most successful and popular leagues in the world, the Championship gets better attendances than many top divisions and, as was noted above, the bottom two divisions are better attended than just about any other lower leagues.
Internationally, British clubs have the CL three times in the last seven years a British club is current EL champion, so there's scarcely a decline in playing standards.
We also have a high degree of mobility: a British club won 3-0 at Valencia last night, a team that was in the bottom division not so long ago - there aren't many countries that can boast of a team from the bottom winning against major European teams.
So, what's not working?

The only thing not working is the distribution of the income across the leagues.

 

[leigull]

That's the point I've been trying to make (and been ignored). It doesn't have to be forever and it could be beneficial. I'm struggling to understand the complete negativity as I think the idea is at least worth looking at as opposed to just being dismissed out of hand as 'not British'.

Definitely agree it's worth looking at and not just dismissing as you say. I do fear that it would ultimately end up screwing the lower league club in favour of the Prem club in one way or another, but think it has the potential to do some good to the lower league teams on the verge of going bust.

 

[GreersElbow]

The Premier League doesn't have enough English players because it is not typical of the English game - It is a world stage for both football players and fans.

I would guess that 4 out of 5 players in the Championship are English, it's just England managers are rarely brave enough to pick them.

Our FL and NL are something we can be extremely proud of, even our 5th tier pulls in over 1,000 attendances per game - and the reason for that is our competitiveness and history - Introducing 'B' teams to the league pyramid would destroy that instantaneously.

I think the PL lacks English players because of our bloody coaching system, you're still seeing youth lump it up field. I wouldn't blame big money, but the FA itself for failing to diagnosis the biggest problem. There needs to be a 10 year plan, this plan should overhaul our current training system and implement coaching styles that are more modern, the out-dated English style of strength and pace is being beaten by technical and possession based football.

If we had teams playing more attractive football, I am sure this will entice locals to check out their local teams for an entertaining fix of football. But due the dominance of the old hoof it up field, lower league teams are unattractive and do not bring an attractive USP. You can get that from watching TV.

In terms of finance, the MLS/NFL financial system is one to be looked at, I seriously think this style of finance would equilibrate the large wages, proportionally share the money among the leagues. But the PL could argue it's a separate league from the football league, which brings in legislative issues, as this may well mean a merger of the 2 leagues. It would then need to be legislated the amount of teams that can be within the league.

So:
PL
Championship
Lge 1
Lge 2

These would be under one league, but the league would have 4 divisions. Pretty much a return to how it use to be, was there such financial and attendance issues when this structure was in place? I'm too young to remember.

 

[Hungry Joe]

In what respect? As we keep being told, the PL is one of the most successful and popular leagues in the world, the Championship gets better attendances than many top divisions and, as was noted above, the bottom two divisions are better attended than just about any other lower leagues.
Internationally, British clubs have the CL three times in the last seven years a British club is current EL champion, so there's scarcely a decline in playing standards.
We also have a high degree of mobility: a British club won 3-0 at Valencia last night, a team that was in the bottom division not so long ago - there aren't many countries that can boast of a team from the bottom winning against major European teams.
So, what's not working?

Exactly right. This 'it's broken' nonsense is the Emperors New Clothes again. If the fundamental structure of football was changed this dramatically it would kill the game for the majority of die-hard supporters, you know, the ones that matter 'cos they still turn up when you're shit again. I would seriously think about spending my Saturday's doing something else if this ever came to fruition.

 

[Czechmate]

Try telling this idea to Bradford fans who had a lovely run and final in the cup !!! Beating premier opposition on the way !!

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

As wrong as it is, what's is the alternative?

Currently there is NO money below the Premier League, and no sign of them handing any money over.
Something has to give, esp as all the time financial mismangement goes by unpunished, (Nobody said you Portsmouth) the endless cycle of club and fan raping will continue.

If it weren't for TB we could be Palace's feeder club

I think Crystal Palace think we are their feeder club...