The "Albion 2012 financial results" thread

[El Presidente]

Indeed we should.



The ultimate aim of the club is to make a profit and not have to rely on the directors injecting funds all the time.
The loan from TB, as long as it is written in stone that if not repayed it will be converted into shares, is not therefore really an issue.
That's how I see it anyway. El Pres can put me straight if that is not correct.

Football clubs are not normal businesses though. They have become the toys of the super rich. The aim of many clubs is to break even or keep within FFP rules. If we were judging clubs on their finances Arsenal fans would be the happy ones, but they're not though!

 

[Brighton Breezy]

With money going up next season - and Wolves getting almost £40m in TV money for coming BOTTOM of the Premier League - you can see why teams gamble, but I am very glad that Bloom won't take that risk with our club.

I think the NEXT set of accounts will be very interesting, and probably key. The Barber Effect, new sponsorship deal, increased season ticket prices etc should all help.

I don't think anyone should be too worried - however strange that sounds when discussing a £9m loss.

 

[Syph]

Palace won't have the Zaha money in the 2012 accounts to massage their figures.

Having cashed in on Zaha it will be interesting to see the extent to the money is used to offset other areas of their costs and what if any portion of his transfer fee goes back into the transfer budget. I guess it won't be apparent for another year or two.

It is hard to imagine that they currently have the income (without one off windfalls from Zaha) to cover costs so must be really desperate from a financial point of view to get to the Premiership this year. If they fail would they even be promotion contenders next season? So could it be s**t or bust for them. It would be a real test for CPFC 2010 - do they splash out on a new stadium / revamp of SP when they can't fill the current one? How would they service the debts this would create - are the CPFC 2010 syndicate able to afford the sort of long term view that Tony Bloom has?

This is all balls. Take a look at how many players were sold at the beginning of the season - Ambrose, Clyne, Scannell and the Moses money. Their replacements were recruited for relatively small sums. Palace loses money, like all clubs at this level, but it won't be anything like £9+ million.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Some additional context.

In the season 2010/11 the average wage bill at Championship level was close to the £17m mark.

That season West Ham United's Championship wage bill was a mammoth £42m. Elsewhere, Leicester City spent £28m, Reading £27m, Birmingham City £25m, Cardiff City £21m, Hull City £19m, Bristol City £19m, Leeds United £18m, Nottingham Forest £17m and Burnley £17m.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Football clubs are not normal businesses though. They have become the toys of the super rich. The aim of many clubs is to break even or keep within FFP rules. If we were judging clubs on their finances Arsenal fans would be the happy ones, but they're not though!

True. I have seen quotes from TB before though, saying that ultimately the club should not have to rely on it's directors - or perhaps he just means 'not have to rely on them quite so much'.

Ultimately I would hope that clubs like Arsenal are 'rewarded' for their prudence when much stricter financial rules come into place. It that ever happens of course.

 

[Triggaaar]

So, £9.3m loss, £2.3m of which is player amortisation. A more realistic figure for the change in player value might be 0. I don't think we're running down that many valuable contracts.
So perhaps a £7m loss. I'd like to see more details on the £13.8m other expenses (note 21), but can't see what that's made up of, and how it might change over the coming years.

Hopefully the extra ticket sales this year and next will help towards the loss.

 

[El Presidente]

Barber has said we are budgeting for a similar loss this season.

 

[Triggaaar]

but is 140 million in debt healthy regardless of who it is owned to.

It depends what league you're in. It's realistic for where we are - ie, we had nothing (that's being generous) and we've spent £140m in a ground (inc the additions) + new training facilities + players etc. That's what it costs to build what we have from scratch. Even the best run clubs are in debt to their owners, purely by the fact that their value belongs to the owners. The way Tony has set the debt up is as good as it gets.

Where does Tony Bloom get the money to pay for this, and how does he finance his debt -which must be astronomical? He can't have won it all on on-line poker surely?

No. He didn't make his money by winning at online poker. He's a business man (property, plus maybe a gambling site?)

Some additional context.

In the season 2010/11 the average wage bill at Championship level was close to the £17m mark.

That season West Ham United's Championship wage bill was a mammoth £42m. Elsewhere, Leicester City spent £28m, Reading £27m, Birmingham City £25m, Cardiff City £21m, Hull City £19m, Bristol City £19m, Leeds United £18m, Nottingham Forest £17m and Burnley £17m.

And the following season our wage bill was under £15m - wow. Gus out!

 

[El Presidente]

And the following season our wage bill was under £15m - wow. Gus out!

Stop using pesky facts.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

This is all balls. Take a look at how many players were sold at the beginning of the season - Ambrose, Clyne, Scannell and the Moses money. Their replacements were recruited for relatively small sums. Palace loses money, like all clubs at this level, but it won't be anything like £9+ million.

Not 'balls' but the harsh reality. Palace are like most Clubs ie living beyond their true means, relying on benefactors and especially in your case selling the best assets. How will you continue to service your current debts, let alone if you ever rebuild SP or worse build anew? Hopefully CPFC 2010 are in for the long haul and have very deep pockets.

Everyone is in a stampede in search of that Prem pot of gold. Will those that miss their chance (especially those without parachute money and trying to operate within FFP) ever recover, let alone compete fairly?

Even Tony Bloom has had a punt by making a huge capital outlay in re-building the Albion from scratch but at least he isn't going anywhere and is gradually converting this into shares rather than outright debt. Too many benefactors / JCL club owners don't have the patience to take a longer term view, demand an immediate return or walk away leaving all sorts of collateral damage.

 

[gripper stebson]

Palace, like us, are very fortunate to have real fans in charge. Even if they do have silly haircuts and argue on Twitter!

 

[Brighton Mod]

View attachment 40797

2012 revenue £22.2m up from £7.5m in 2011. reflecting promotion to Championship from League One.

2012 revenue £22.2m (2011 £7.5m): ticketing £7.9m (2011 £2.3m), TV £5.7m (2011 £1.6m), commercial £8.6m (2011 £3.6m).

2012 accounts: average attendance increased from 7,352 at Withdean to 20,028. Season tickets for 2012/13 21,835 (11/12 17,636).

2012 commercial £8.6m (‘11 £3.6m): sponsorship £3.9m (£2.0m), retail £2.0m (£0.5m), catering £1.3m (£0.0m), 1901 club £1.1m (£0.0m).

2012 staff costs doubled to £14.7m (2011 £7.2m), but wages to turnover ratio down from 95% to 67%.

67% wages to turnover ratio lower than many in Championship: Bristol City 157%, Leicester 130%, #Boro 119%, Forest 119%, Cardiff 103%

2012 other costs more than doubled from £7.5m to £16.9m, due to “costs of running a state of the art stadium”.

2012 gross debt of £120.5m (2011 £95.0m) – owed to Tony Bloom (unsecured & interest-free). Less £10.2m cash gives net debt £110.3m.

Including £18m capital injected in 2009, Tony Bloom has put nearly £140m into the club. Since year-end £40m converted into capital.

Amex stadium cost £103m & expansion will cost £15m. New training ground will cost £22m (per 2011 a/c), so total commitment of £140m.

Only one thing to say, THANK YOU Mr BLOOM, your commitment to the club and our entertainment will never be surpassed.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Barber has said we are budgeting for a similar loss this season.

I read Barber's statement at face value. The Club is BUDGETING for a similar loss this season. Not panicking about a possible loss that can't be afforded, but setting expenditure levels that won't break us. He's clearly said that this isn't repeatable every year and that the Club will have to budget to remain within the FFP rules when they kick in. I suspect that if the FFP rules were to be deferred, the Club would still budget to contain its losses as if the rules WERE there. The biggest uncertainty is future income - and that hangs on the thread of how many goals we can put past Forest and Leicester in the next couple of weeks.

 

[Napper]

The point is TB loves the Albion and we should appreciate his efforts 100%.

No doubting that at all.

Naive to just say everything is ok as TB is a fan though. Things can and do change.

Not majorly concerned at all but no harm discussing

 

[Mackenzie]

Looks like we need to either win the playoffs, put a tenner on every match ticket, or sell Harley to Madrid for £10m.



There must be clubs in this division with even worse numbers, FFP will see some huge changes in football.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Our friends oop North are on the case.
Brighton lost £9.1m in 2012... - CPFC BBS

Not really of any interest what negative spin those dimwits put on it though.

 

[soistes]

At least we're not a Spanish club, most of whom seem to be in a much worse financial state...
EU prepares to blow final whistle on Spain's debt-ridden football clubs | Football | The Guardian
On the plus side, if this EU clampdown goes ahead, some Spanish clubs may be looking to offload some more players

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

I wonder if Mustapher Kembel or whatever his name is here thinks about the accounts and will he apologise now that its clear Bloom hasn't taken a penny out of the football club.

 

[Titus]

With money going up next season

 

[Tooting Gull]

Kieron at The Swiss Ramble has almost cornered the market on the money stuff, made a real success of that blog combining passion for football and expertise in finance. It's not always a light read, but it's not supposed to be. There's arguably too much 'light' elsewhere, you need people who can get tucked into the numbers as we know only too well.

Even though he is an Arsenal fan, the family were in Sussex for much of his life and a Goldstone paying punter in his day. Even when we were in League Two. Met up with him in Switzerland when Zamora played there for the Under-21s, Christ that seems a long time ago.