Terrorists, would you condone torture to save lives ?

[British Bulldog]

What makes anyone think that torture is going to make them talk?

Give me 2 minute's with a pair of nut crackers and they'll talk.

 

[dougdeep]

No.

Does anyone know that torture would actually save lives? These martyrs have been caught before they died. What makes anyone think that torture is going to make them talk? They want to die.

You are right, but it was until 1998. I was close.

 

[Yorkie]

Give me 2 minute's with a pair of nut crackers and they'll talk.

Do you really think so?

 

[British Bulldog]

Do you really think so?

Trust me Yorkie there's some things that a woman will never understand.

 

[tedebear]

They're just laughing at us because we try to be 'better' than them.

I really don't care if they are laughing at us or not to be honest mate. The issue for me is that we rightly or wrongly (which is a completely separate continuing debate) decided to go over to their place and attempt to put their house in order in our way. So they have come to our house to seek justice and sort our house out in their fashion. (Simple and generalising but you get my drift)

So torturing any of them we catch isn't going to sort out anything. They'll keep coming until we stop attempting to put their house in order, or stop trying to take things they have that we energy selfish people want. Simple.

 

[Yorkie]

Trust me Yorkie there's some things that a woman will never understand.

When men can go through childbirth without painkillers then I will listen. It is officially the worst pain humans can bear (medical evidence)

 

[maffew]

I really don't care if they are laughing at us or not to be honest mate. The issue for me is that we rightly or wrongly (which is a completely separate continuing debate) decided to go over to their place and attempt to put their house in order in our way. So they have come to our house to seek justice and sort our house out in their fashion. (Simple and generalising but you get my drift)

wasnt 9/11 first?

 

[itszamora]

If we start torturing or killing suspected terrorists we are no better than the terrorists themselves. How can a society deem something illegal and wrong, and then punish those guilty (or suspected of being guilty) of it with that same act? It is utterly illogical and lowers us to their level.

 

[maffew]

When men can go through childbirth without painkillers then I will listen. It is officially the worst pain humans can bear (medical evidence)

trigeminal neuralgia.

Scientists describe it as the worst pain a human can feel. About 45,000 Americans suffer from the condition that causes nerves in the face to send intense pain signals to the brain for no reason. An episode can last up to a minute and are sporadic and can occur everyday, then nothing for weeks.

"Giving birth to a child is extremely painful but it is nothing like this"

 

[Yorkie]

trigeminal neuralgia.

Scientists describe it as the worst pain a human can feel. About 45,000 Americans suffer from the condition that causes nerves in the face to send intense pain signals to the brain for no reason. An episode can last up to a minute and are sporadic and can occur everyday, then nothing for weeks.

"Giving birth to a child is extremely painful but it is nothing like this"

Yes but that's Americans. They have to be different.

 

[British Bulldog]

When men can go through childbirth without painkillers then I will listen. It is officially the worst pain humans can bear (medical evidence)

I cant comment on giving birth Yorkie just as you hav'nt got a pair of goolies to know how painful they can be. This medical evidence is absolute rubbish.

 

[tedebear]

wasnt 9/11 first?

Yes - but why did that happen? Were we and the US over their trying to take something from them that we need/want? Trying to meddle in their affairs? This is the wikipedia summary of the formation of Al Qaeda which is quite good in a nutshell...

Al Qaeda's origins date back to 1979 when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan.Soon after the invasion, Osama bin Laden traveled to Afghanistan and helped organize Arab mujahadeen, creating Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK), to resist the Soviets. In 1989, as the Soviets withdrew, MAK was transformed into Al Qaeda, as a "rapid reaction force" in jihad against governments across the Muslim world. Under guidance of Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama became more radical. In 1996, bin Laden issued his first fatwa which called for "American soldiers to get out of Saudi Arabia".A second fatwa, issued by bin Laden in 1998, "directed his followers to kill Americans anywhere". In the fatwa, bin Laden outlined his objections to American foreign policy towards Israel, as well as the continued presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War.

 

[Yorkie]

In 1996, bin Laden issued his first fatwa which called for "American soldiers to get out of Saudi Arabia".A second fatwa, issued by bin Laden in 1998, "directed his followers to kill Americans anywhere". In the fatwa, bin Laden outlined his objections to American foreign policy towards Israel, as well as the continued presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War.

I know people who worked in Saudi Arabia. The British and Americans are there at the invitation of the Saudi royal family to train their armed forces.
Don't forget Bin Laden is a Saudi dissident.


The one thing the Arab world cannot forgive America for, is backing Israel.

 

[tedebear]

trigeminal neuralgia.

Scientists describe it as the worst pain a human can feel. About 45,000 Americans suffer from the condition that causes nerves in the face to send intense pain signals to the brain for no reason. An episode can last up to a minute and are sporadic and can occur everyday, then nothing for weeks.

"Giving birth to a child is extremely painful but it is nothing like this"

Is it only Americans? that says something doesn't it?

 

[maffew]

good point

 

[Tooting Gull]

Good thread, cuts to the heart of a debate which I'm sure is regularly held in the Home Office.

These things are never as black and white as they seem. In answer to the question 'do you support torture', we'd all say no. Well OK, I say all, maybe not one or two of the Hitlerjugend on here, but the vast majority.

But then you start looking at specific scenarios. Let's hypothetically say a would-be Al Qaeda bomber has been caught before the device has gone off.

Police: Are you acting alone?
Bomber: No, there are many others planned.
Police: Do you know where?
Bomber: Yes
Police: Tell us, so that we can save lives
Bomber: Get lost, infidel

What do the police do in this situation. Say 'OK then' forget it and move on, or exert some more 'pressure'. Which might or might not constitute torture. But the information could save many lives.

I am very pro human rights, but the current terror situation presents a special set of dilemmas for the security services. It's an incredibly difficult balance to strike.

 

[dougdeep]

Good thread, cuts to the heart of a debate which I'm sure is regularly held in the Home Office.

These things are never as black and white as they seem. In answer to the question 'do you support torture', we'd all say no. Well OK, I say all, maybe not one or two of the Hitlerjugend on here, but the vast majority.

Not according to the poll above.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Give me 2 minute's with a pair of nut crackers and they'll talk.

Wrong approach, fails almost all the time. Tactical questioning allied with some heavily researched handling routines gets results. A couple of hours at most before you start to get useful answers.

As Yorkie might know, and Junior certainly would, TQ and PH courses are interesting to say the least! R2I and CAC (now SERE) courses can really f*** up your social life.

Even more so when you have been an instructor on them. And you would know that physical torture is so ineffective that it's not taught.

 

[Yorkie]

Wrong approach, fails almost all the time. Tactical questioning allied with some heavily researched handling routines gets results. A couple of hours at most before you start to get useful answers.

As Yorkie might know, and Junior certainly would, TQ and PH courses are interesting to say the least! R2I and CAC (now SERE) courses can really f*** up your social life.

Even more so when you have been an instructor on them. And you would know that physical torture is so ineffective that it's not taught.

The very point I was trying to make. I guess being in the forces teaches us these things.

 

[British Bulldog]

Wrong approach, fails almost all the time. Tactical questioning allied with some heavily researched handling routines gets results. A couple of hours at most before you start to get useful answers.

As Yorkie might know, and Junior certainly would, TQ and PH courses are interesting to say the least! R2I and CAC (now SERE) courses can really f*** up your social life.

Even more so when you have been an instructor on them. And you would know that physical torture is so ineffective that it's not taught.

I'm not going to pretend that I know what most of your post means but trust me fella the nut crackers would have me squeeling far quicker than tactical questions and researched handling.