Sunday: do you believe in Jesus? Do you love Jesus? Do you trust Jesus?

[ThePompousPaladin]

the more I think about it the more likely it's a load of ***** .

I'd agree the fundamentalist stuff is, but there's some common 'truths' in the rest of it if you look closely with an open mind.

The baby may have gone out with the bathwater.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

I much prefer to believe in Greek gods. At least they meant something. Especially Bacchus. The God of wine and having a bloody good time in your life.

Dionysis was a strange God, he represented many cults who some of them were nasty *******s, but his patronage of the arts and his annual festivals, a bit like the brighton festival, spawned some fantastic works of literature from the likes of Sophocles and Aeschylus.

Of course the virgin birth is a representation of Horus story in ancient Egypt.

It's all bunkum

 

[Surrey_Albion]

I'd agree the fundamentalist stuff is, but there's some common 'truths' in the rest of it if you look closely with an open mind.

The baby may have gone out with the bathwater.

not really, allot of the bible and it's stories are from religions like Hinuism (the oldest practised religion ) and lost religions like paginismn, even the cross is a pagan symbol and the easter Egg, tree indoors and easter bunny (no I don't believe in easter bunny either) realign and god is man made to keep control of the populus, we are animals like every other animal on the planet,did your bacon and eggs for breakfast go onto a better afterlife....no! as we are (questionably ) intelligent animals we need control of others and excuses for our poor behaviour ,irrational thoughts and fear of death.
we can see planets light years away, why can't we see god or heaven?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I much prefer to believe in Greek gods. At least they meant something. Especially Bacchus. The God of wine and having a bloody good time in your life.

Dionysis was a strange God, he represented many cults who some of them were nasty *******s, but his patronage of the arts and his annual festivals, a bit like the brighton festival, spawned some fantastic works of literature from the likes of Sophocles and Aeschylus.

Of course the virgin birth is a representation of Horus story in ancient Egypt.

It's all bunkum

http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/

Part of the problem with the “Jesus is Horus” claim is that in order to find items that even partially fit the life story of Jesus, advocates of the view must cherry-pick bits of myth from different epochs of Egyptian history. This is possible today because modern archaeology has given us extensive knowledge of Egypt’s religious beliefs and how they changed over time, making it possible to cite one detail from this version of a story and another from that.

But the early Christians, even if they had wanted to base the Gospels on the Horus myths, would have had no way to do so. They might have known what was believed about Horus in the Egypt of their day, but they would have had no access to the endless variations of the stories that laid buried in the sands until archaeologists started digging them up in the 1800s.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

not really, allot of the bible and it's stories are from religions like Hinuism (the oldest practised religion ) and lost religions like paginismn, even the cross is a pagan symbol and the easter Egg, tree indoors and easter bunny (no I don't believe in easter bunny either) realign and god is man made to keep control of the populus, we are animals like every other animal on the planet,did your bacon and eggs for breakfast go onto a better afterlife....no! as we are (questionably ) intelligent animals we need control of others and excuses for our poor behaviour ,irrational thoughts and fear of death.
we can see planets light years away, why can't we see god or heaven?

That's all fine and dandy. Societies will always try and exert control over their members in one way or another (religion/nationalism/consumerism etc). But i don't see any of that as a reason to not have a form of spirituality.

If you get past those bits (the parts of religion that are social/tribal constructs), one gets to the practical positives.

 

[Honky Tonx]

Worth a watch IMO and would be interested to read your response.

These are the views of the Sam Harris who obviously does not believe in God or may be does not understand. God did not write the Bible, so called learned men did. Sam Harris in this video has not proved that God does not exist and cannot. He is only giving his view.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Watching a documentary that debunked the conspiracy theories about 9/11 last night I realised how the attitude of the "Truthers" reminded me a lot of the arguments put forward by religious people about proving the existence of God.

It didn't matter how many times hard evidence was put in front of them showing that they were wrong. They just thought up another, more far fetched way that they might be right. These people are so completely convinced that something that didn't happen happened that it's impossible to persuade them otherwise.

It's a similar situation when people are asked to prove the existence of God and bring out the stock reply of "how can you prove that God doesn't exist?". Never mind the fact that there is absolutely zero evidence to support God being real, because nobody can prove that something invisible and made up isn't there obviously proves that it is.

What is interesting is that the higher the standard of education in a country the less religious it becomes. Which doesn't say a lot for vast swathes of America.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/

Part of the problem with the “Jesus is Horus” claim is that in order to find items that even partially fit the life story of Jesus, advocates of the view must cherry-pick bits of myth from different epochs of Egyptian history. This is possible today because modern archaeology has given us extensive knowledge of Egypt’s religious beliefs and how they changed over time, making it possible to cite one detail from this version of a story and another from that.

But the early Christians, even if they had wanted to base the Gospels on the Horus myths, would have had no way to do so. They might have known what was believed about Horus in the Egypt of their day, but they would have had no access to the endless variations of the stories that laid buried in the sands until archaeologists started digging them up in the 1800s.

Written no doubt by a believer. Personally I chose to believe that the Horus myth is a likely a the son of a " God". I mean how arrogant of a believer in a religious cult to think that of the billions and billions of stars and billions of galaxies a particular God would want to send a " son" to wash the hands of all the bad things that they have all done.

 

[Brighton Mod]

http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/

Part of the problem with the “Jesus is Horus” claim is that in order to find items that even partially fit the life story of Jesus, advocates of the view must cherry-pick bits of myth from different epochs of Egyptian history. This is possible today because modern archaeology has given us extensive knowledge of Egypt’s religious beliefs and how they changed over time, making it possible to cite one detail from this version of a story and another from that.

But the early Christians, even if they had wanted to base the Gospels on the Horus myths, would have had no way to do so. They might have known what was believed about Horus in the Egypt of their day, but they would have had no access to the endless variations of the stories that laid buried in the sands until archaeologists started digging them up in the 1800s.

But they did have an idea of what had been passed down through generations, they weren't blind to it all. Constant references to Pharoah in the Bible give evidence to stories being handed down, even though Pharoah, was never named, thus still muddying the waters.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But they did have an idea of what had been passed down through generations, they weren't blind to it all. Constant references to Pharoah in the Bible give evidence to stories being handed down, even though Pharoah, was never named, thus still muddying the waters.

They were mainly uneducated fishermen, who wouldn't have been taught Egyptian history or myths. Without access to education or the internet, how much would you know about Scandinavian mythology?
That's besides dying for it. If you had a choice of denying your faith, which may or may not be true, or ripped apart by lions in AD64 (just 30 years after Jesus died) I'm sure you would say, it was just a few stories handed down to me. Nero was blaming Christians for what was happening in Rome.

Believers will believe, those who don't want to, won't. I can't change your mind neither can you change mine.

 

[Surrey_Albion]

That's all fine and dandy. Societies will always try and exert control over their members in one way or another (religion/nationalism/consumerism etc). But i don't see any of that as a reason to not have a form of spirituality.

If you get past those bits (the parts of religion that are social/tribal constructs), one gets to the practical positives.

there are positive but they should be natural human compassion anyway, morality does not have to be dictated by an imaginary friend

 

[Brighton Mod]

They were mainly uneducated fishermen, who wouldn't have been taught Egyptian history or myths. Without access to education or the internet, how much would you know about Scandinavian mythology?
That's besides dying for it. If you had a choice of denying your faith, which may or may not be true, or ripped apart by lions in AD64 (just 30 years after Jesus died) I'm sure you would say, it was just a few stories handed down to me. Nero was blaming Christians for what was happening in Rome.

Believers will believe, those who don't want to, won't. I can't change your mind neither can you change mine.

Richard Francis Burton, the first white man to attend the HAJ and discoverer of the source of the Nile, said religion is a consequence of birth. Quite accurate it could be argued, not many muslems in the UK prior to the 20th Century, not many Budhist Monks in the UK now. If we were not taught about the Bible we wouldn't know any of this, which is why I know nothing of Scandanavian Mythology

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Richard Francis Burton, the first white man to attend the HAJ and discoverer of the source of the Nile, said religion is a consequence of birth. Quite accurate it could be argued, not many muslems in the UK prior to the 20th Century, not many Budhist Monks in the UK now. If we were not taught about the Bible we wouldn't know any of this, which is why I know nothing of Scandanavian Mythology

The Christian church in China is the fastest growing in the world, despite there being no religious teaching at all.

 

[Brighton Mod]

The Christian church in China is the fastest growing in the world, despite there being no religious teaching at all.

And in the UK where we have had centuries to consider it, whats happening? Consequence of birth relates to location and timeline, where were the China Christians in previous centuries? At the current time there are diminishing congegations in church in the UK, we will differ on opinions and those of others, we are neither right or wrong.

 

[Stoo82]

Do I believe in Jesus? Yes, its almost certain he excised.

Do I love Jesus? Only in the same way that I love every living creature.

Do I trust Jesus? Is there a reason why I shouldn't?

Do I believe there should be a middle man/woman between me and my godly conscience? No. But I can see why some people may need them.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

there are positive but they should be natural human compassion anyway, morality does not have to be dictated by an imaginary friend

It's debatable whether humans are 'naturally' compassionate, i think for the most part that's social conditioning. Morals are also social conditioning, notions of right and wrong/good and bad are mostly dependent on one's culture. There are a few human traits that all cultures have had, but they mainly seem to be about passing one's genes along.
A frankish knight would be proud of his ability to kill and exalted for it, for example.

So to dig away past that and we'll get to the positive's in spirituality.

I'm a christian, and i don't believe in an imaginary friend, i don't humanize 'God' at all.
We would have to dig past that cliqued attitude to see the baby in the bath water.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

If you had a choice of denying your faith, which may or may not be true, or ripped apart by lions in AD64 (just 30 years after Jesus died) I'm sure you would say, it was just a few stories handed down to me.

But if, on the other hand, you believe that dying as a holy martyr will take you straight to paradise, you'll positively welcome even the most gruesome of deaths....


Ring any bells?

 

[narly101]

That's a blasphemous rumour.

Careful. Your halo will slip.

 

[narly101]

Do I believe in Jesus? Nope. The bible is a fictional narrative, just like Humpty Dumpty.
Do I love Jesus? Nope, see above.
Do I trust Jesus? Nope, see above.

 

[Megazone]

Do I believe in Jesus? Nope. The bible is a fictional narrative, just like Humpty Dumpty.
Do I love Jesus? Nope, see above.
Do I trust Jesus? Nope, see above.

What do you actually believe in?

Whatever it is, It isn't doing your head any favours.

http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?328585-I-think-we-better-the-peel-the-onion