[News] Should we Bring Back National Service?

[Thunder Bolt]

However that is not what they signed up and agreed to, they should really be meeting the 2 percent.

Proves trumps point, countries just expecting the USA to do it

Expecting the USA to do what?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not out of context at all. I quoted an entire paragraph - which started with the words “I think…”; that’s generally taken as a reasonable indicator that what follows is an opinion.

You also mused about “…a tiered level of commitment…”, which is exactly what the DofE offers.

Your assertions now in relation to my posts about what you posted and about whether what you posted amounted to an opinion or not are imo disingenuous.

If you don’t think that the DofE meets what you advocated then fair enough. I think it does.

“Im backing out of this thread”? I doubt it. I am though.

I’m in full agreement. My kids did all three levels whilst in the Air Cadets.

 

[Zeberdi]

Not out of context at all. I quoted an entire paragraph - which started with the words “I think…”; that’s generally taken as a reasonable indicator that what follows is an opinion.

You also mused about “…a tiered level of commitment…”, which is exactly what the DofE offers.

Your assertions now in relation to my posts about what you posted and about whether what you posted amounted to an opinion or not are imo disingenuous.

If you don’t think that the DofE meets what you advocated then fair enough. I think it does.

“Im backing out of this thread”? I doubt it. I am though.

I said up thread what the media/politicians are discussing is nothing like the DoE so it is disingenuous of you to tell me what I am thinking when I muse whether some form of non-compulsory National Service might be a good idea - I threw it up casually for discussion not postulated a formulated opinion, nor presented it as a fixed opinion. As I said, I am not ‘ Advocating ‘ anything and have no strong feelings either way (other than, if any form of National Service scheme was introduced it should be non-compulsory) - I certainly didn’t have in mind a bastardised form of the DoE, a scheme which has very different objectives to what any national service would have and has nothing to do with our preparedness for war.

If your opinion is that you are against any form of national service then fair enough but I can assure you that the MPs and Army leaders that have been discussing this recently certainly didn’t suggest that the DoE award or cadet service would solve the issues around being unprepared for a NATO war with Russia.

(As for your dig in bold - entirely unnecessary trolling).

 

[Bry Nylon]

… a form of training/education on a national level can't be a bad idea.

Yes. To make up for the 14-years training / education on a national level that they have just completed.

 

[Zeberdi]

There doesn’t seem to be an option to ignore a thread when you are the thread starter

 

[Bry Nylon]

There doesn’t seem to be an option to ignore a thread when you are the thread starter

Just don’t open it again

 

[heathgate]

I think you can understand why Canada are reluctant to. They’re not a great expeditionary force, and never really have been. They’re not a nuclear power. They face no real direct threat.

They are just as much in the cross-hairs as any 'western' nation, Putin and any of the militant Islamic groups would not differentiate between the US and Canada.... it's one single north American Capitalist entity to them.

....and, Canada had always been a significant military partner... from the 1st ww to date.

If you want protection, you signed up to 2%, ..... pay up or move on.

 

[Cotton Socks]

I do wonder if my eldests training on Fortnite and its associated tactics would be comparable with the real world if called upon. Saying that , the way he talks to his teammates sometimes is disgusting

They'll need to reach the age to play Call Of Duty, Fortnite is TA stuff.

 

[drew]

Cooking, cleaning, washing up, first aid/nursing, driving/logistics, stacking and carrying boxes and crates, radio communications.

I hope they aren't in the order of priority!!

 

[The Clamp]

For any 18-30 yr old, able bodied and out of work / education young person, national service would be a fantastic opportunity.

It’s not just about “training men to die and kill”

Anyone who thinks that, has no understanding of the military.

The military build and maintain infrastructure all across the world .

They provide relief in disaster areas in the U.K. and abroad.

They offer a vast array of professions and training.

Providing a moral structure, values, the merit of hard graft, respect for self and others. And yes, the ability to fight effectively when we inevitably go to war with Russia.

And of course, it doesn’t have to be the military.
Nursing. The Peace Corp. Wildlife Trust, charity work. All provide a worthwhile use of the time that they might otherwise spend playing COD with their moronic mates and shagging anything that moves in town on a Friday night.

So yes, I am FIRMLY in the compulsory community / military service.

And I don’t reckon there would be many that would regret 2 or 3 years gaining skills, experience, and respect.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

A big bouncing ’no’ from me.

Filling the armed forces with people who don’t want to be there is a disaster waiting to happen. The cost of extra uniforms, weapons, building new accommodation etc will far outweigh the benefits of national service. It would be better to use the monies from a proposed national service programme to actually fund the armed forces.

it would also mean people going to uni at 21 which isn’t going to work, though I suspect the Eton lot would get out o

For any 18-30 yr old, able bodied and out of work / education young person, national service would be a fantastic opportunity.

It’s not just about “training men to die and kill”

Anyone who thinks that, has no understanding of the military.

The military build and maintain infrastructure all across the world .

They provide relief in disaster areas in the U.K. and abroad.

They offer a vast array of professions and training.

Providing a moral structure, values, the merit of hard graft, respect for self and others. And yes, the ability to fight effectively when we inevitably go to war with Russia.

And of course, it doesn’t have to be the military.
Nursing. The Peace Corp. Wildlife Trust, charity work. All provide a worthwhile use of the time that they might otherwise spend playing COD with their moronic mates and shagging anything that moves in town on a Friday night.

So yes, I am FIRMLY in the compulsory community / military service.

And I don’t reckon there would be many that would regret 2 or 3 years gaining skills, experience, and respect.

having served the last thing I would want is to serve with people who don’t want to be there. Not fair on them or those who volunteere.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I am against any form of compulsory miilitary national service for a variety of reasons, but I think there is some mileage in a community-based programme of maybe 4-6 months duration between leaving secondary education and commencing tertiary education / apprenticeships / full- time work.

There is a disconnect between young people and their communities. Indeed, this can persist throughout adult life. Anyone involved will know club, societies and voluntary services in the community are normally performed by the same small pool of people. Many will talk the talk but not walk the walk, so the mindset needs to change. We all need to do something, even if it is only in a small way.

 

[WATFORD zero]

For any 18-30 yr old, able bodied and out of work / education young person, national service would be a fantastic opportunity.

It’s not just about “training men to die and kill”

Anyone who thinks that, has no understanding of the military.

The military build and maintain infrastructure all across the world .

They provide relief in disaster areas in the U.K. and abroad.

They offer a vast array of professions and training.

Providing a moral structure, values, the merit of hard graft, respect for self and others. And yes, the ability to fight effectively when we inevitably go to war with Russia.

And of course, it doesn’t have to be the military.
Nursing. The Peace Corp. Wildlife Trust, charity work. All provide a worthwhile use of the time that they might otherwise spend playing COD with their moronic mates and shagging anything that moves in town on a Friday night.

So yes, I am FIRMLY in the compulsory community / military service.

And I don’t reckon there would be many that would regret 2 or 3 years gaining skills, experience, and respect.

A bit like the opportunity that they currently have to join the professional forces ?

I've always struggled in business trying to motivate people that don't want to be there, to actually learn and be good at stuff

 

[The Clamp]

A bit like the opportunity that they currently have to join the professional forces ?

I've always struggled in business trying to motivate people that don't want to be there, to actually learn and be good at stuff

I’m talking about the ones that aren’t motivated to join the forces or do something productive.

Most people will find something that motivates them. And if they can’t, I find a fine motivation is the threat of a good kick up the backside.

 

[The Clamp]

A big bouncing ’no’ from me.

Filling the armed forces with people who do it want to be there is a disaster waiting to happen. The cost of extra uniforms, weapons, building new accommodation etc will far outweigh the benefits of national service. It would be better to use the monies from a proposed national service programme to actually fund the armed forces.

it would also mean people going to uni at 21 which isn’t going to work, though I suspect the Eton lot would get out o

having served the last thing I would want is to serve with people who don’t want to be there. Not fair on them or those who volunteere.

National service isn’t about serving on the frontline. Nor is the peace Corp, the wildlife trust, nursing, charity work.

I’m not talking about tarining people up for the special forces !

Perhaps they could clean some hospital wards or help build flood defences?

And who knows. Maybe a bit of sqaure bashing in -2 at 6pm on a Friday night while their employed mates are down the pub chatting up birds and having a laugh might motivate them to get their act together.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I’m talking about the ones that aren’t motivated to join the forces or do something productive.

Most people will find something that motivates them. And if they can’t, I find a fine motivation is the threat of a good kick up the backside.

I don't want those people (realistically a relatively small number) anywhere near heavy machinery or automatic weapons.

If they have to do something make them dig crops or clear minefields or something.

Ooh, we could make them reopen the mines! That'd be an incentive to do literally anything else.

 

[The Clamp]

I don't want those people (realistically a relatively small number) anywhere near heavy machinery or automatic weapons.

If they have to do something make them dig crops or clear minefields or something.

Ooh, we could make them reopen the mines! That'd be an incentive to do literally anything else.

Exactly. There’s a job for everyone. Even if that is just peeling spuds all day.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

National service isn’t about serving on the frontline. Nor is the peace Corp, the wildlife trust, nursing, charity work.

I’m not talking about tarining people up for the special forces !

Perhaps they could clean some hospital wards or help build flood defences?

And who knows. Maybe a bit of sqaure bashing in -2 at 6pm on a Friday night while their employed mates are down the pub chatting up birds and having a laugh might motivate them to get their act together.

As somebody who designs flood defences (among other, more or less interesting things), I also don't want the chronically stupid or unmotivated anywhere near my building site.

 

[The Clamp]

As somebody who designs flood defences (among other, more or less interesting things), I also don't want the chronically stupid or unmotivated anywhere near my building site.

Oh for fucks sake.

Get them picking litter then. Scrubbing toilets.

Or maybe you’re right. Let them sit on their arses wasting tax payers money because people think their jobs are so precious that nobody but the super motivated, super qualified could possibly do it.

Designing waterproof walls? Doesn’t sound that hard, tbh.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Designing waterproof walls? Doesn’t sound that hard, tbh.

Not for an intelligent, competent civil engineer like me.

Some of the twats I have to deal with seem to make it the most difficult task in the world.

Anyway, funnily enough most of the areas worth defending from floods seem to be town centres with loads of roads and railways and historic buildings in the way - they're not generally just dumped in the middle of the countryside.

It's hard enough dealing with some of the people who work on building sites who notionally want to be there (and I have a particular Derby supporting arsehole in mind here) without throwing a load of complete wasters at the problem.

Get them picking litter then. Scrubbing toilets.

I have also worked as a litter-picker and toilet scrubber in the past as it happens. I'll grant you anybody at least semi-able-bodied could do those jobs.