Should Tube leaders go to prison?

[Herr Tubthumper]

Just wish we had a union that stood up for us like they have. As a seafarer on a Bahamas registered ship under American ownership, you pretty much have zero rights.
Their attitude is "If you don't like it, there are plenty of other people who will take your job".

If only we had someone like the late Bob Crow. Be good to see a cruise ship unable to sail because of the crew protesting about their pay & conditions.
Don't get me wrong, my salary is ok, (although I breach Maritime Labor Law every week with the amount of hours I do) but the regular crew from say, Philippines, Caribbean, Indonesia, Nicaragua etc. 8-10 month contracts working every day then maximum of 2 months off before coming back. Don't know how they do it.

Up the workers!

This

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Everyone should do their upmost to be part of a Union so they can get support when their employer tries to **** them over.

Indeed. It is also their right to withdraw their labour. I was a union member for most of my working life. I didn't agree with every decision taken, but I would still be a union member if I had the choice over again.

 

[alfredmizen]

"The unions rejected a "final" pay offer from LU which included a 2% rise this year and £2,000 for drivers on the weekend night Tube service. The typical salary for a Tube driver is £50,000 a year, the RMT said, but the unions maintain the new plans would be disruptive to their members' lives. They claim some employees are concerned they will have to work more overnight shifts"

£50k for driving a train isn't enough! They're getting an above inflation pay rise & a payment of £2,000. And basically they're concerned they might have to work extra overnight shifts. Absolute joke.

You know what, if I don't like my job I get another one. Why don't they go & get a new job if they don't like this one. Ah that's right, they can't because they don't have any other skills.

stumpy tim demonstrates his new labour contempt for the working class

 

[yxee]

If you're earning £50,000 a year, you are NOT working class.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Yes. The bloke behind me was made redundant from Citibank after 9 years and walked off with 90k, and he earnt considerably less than you do. You also told me how much you made last time you had a settlement. It wasn't £100k but you know full well it was a substantial amount.

Even if I had suggested a severance of half the amount, say, £50k, it doesn't really alter my point, does it?

I just don't get why all of a sudden, you're all in behind that Bullingdon fckwitt, Boris Johnson, and his race to the bottom for the ordinaries.

My point is that if my company changed my working conditions & I didn't qualify for redundancy I would resign. That's what people tend to do when they're unhappy.

I'm not sure this is a pro-Boris or anti-Boris issue. I'm sure there are plenty of Labour supporters who disagree with the strike (me being one). It's lazy to suggest this is a party political thing. I fail to see how £50k + an extra £2k bonus + an above inflation wage increase is a "race to the bottom for the ordinaries". We could go down the Greek route and horrendously overspend of course

 

[alfredmizen]

Given Boris Johnson is on the TfL board I'd happily see them jailed.

Being serious, totally support them on this. And interestingly they seem to have a lot of support from the public and from across the political spectrum if this board is anything to go by.

Total support from me as well , cant believe the vitriol being heaped on them for sticking up for themselves after their contracts were ripped up , heres a little guide to the management salaries, some really VITAL people there !!

https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/tfl-organisational-chart-2014-2015.pdf

 

[alfredmizen]

Frankly, if I was being paid anything close to what the average tube driver is I'd take it.

The attitude that they wont just ''take it'' is precisely why they are paid at that level.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Would you be happy being told that new rosters are being brought in and whereas you worked some weekends now you will be working 3 out of 4 weekends but added to this working at night is going to be the same pay rate as working during the day ? Who is next ? Will GPs who work 9-5 Mon-Fri meekly accept the requirement to provide a 24/7 service in the NHS for no extra pay ?

 

[yxee]

If you're not happy then QUIT.

If you don't want to quit, and want to extract every penny out of the deal by holding the nation to ransom, then yes, you cannot expect to be popular.

 

[alfredmizen]

If you're earning £50,000 a year, you are NOT working class.

of course you are .

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

nearly agree although... I would say terrible when people take advantage of legal rights to bully employers and hold public to Ransom.

The opposite side of that coin is employers taking advantage of their legal rights to 'employ' people on zero-hours contracts, for example. There's rarely a nice, happy middle ground because the motivations of the two sides are diametrically opposed.

The strike is a monumental pain for those of us who do a London commute, but their right to strike is enshrined (for now) in law. However much it irritates me, they're perfectly entitled to strike.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

"The unions rejected a "final" pay offer from LU which included a 2% rise this year and £2,000 for drivers on the weekend night Tube service. The typical salary for a Tube driver is £50,000 a year, the RMT said, but the unions maintain the new plans would be disruptive to their members' lives. They claim some employees are concerned they will have to work more overnight shifts"

£50k for driving a train isn't enough! They're getting an above inflation pay rise & a payment of £2,000. And basically they're concerned they might have to work extra overnight shifts. Absolute joke.

You know what, if I don't like my job I get another one. Why don't they go & get a new job if they don't like this one. Ah that's right, they can't because they don't have any other skills.

This is a lie. Management made the "offer" to the FOUR unions involved with a notice that it would expire a few hours later; the unions did not have time to consult with their members, so the offer expired. It was not rejected; nor was it made in good faith. Management knew that getting agreement from four different unions in the timeframe allowed was impossible: they made this so-called offer simply so they could say it was rejected, safe in the knowledge that the corporate media would dutifully report it as fact, and that it would be believed by morons unable or unwilling to find out the truth.

It's propaganda, and you've fallen for it.

 

[El Presidente]

Your experience of working unsociable hours (and mine for that matter) is sitting up at home in your pants finishing a presentation on a lap top.

Did anyone else get a semi at the thought of you doing that nearly naked, or is it just me?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

£50k a year for driving a train isn't proper compensation?

Yes it is, for what they CURRENTLY do. Now they are being asked to work extra unsocial hours. It's all very well saying 'I'd resign' if you have some two bit job that there is plenty of but there's hardly a huge amount of vacancies for tube drivers. Then again, why should you be forced to resign from your job because your employer wants to changes your working hours ?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

This is a lie. Management made the "offer" to the FOUR unions involved with a notice that it would expire a few hours later; the unions did not have time to consult with their members, so the offer expired. It was not rejected; nor was it made in good faith. Management knew that getting agreement from four different unions in the timeframe allowed was impossible: they made this so-called offer simply so they could say it was rejected, safe in the knowledge that the corporate media would dutifully report it as fact, and that it would be believed by morons unable or unwilling to find out the truth.

It's propaganda, and you've fallen for it.

Or you've fallen for the Unions propaganda. Neither of us actually know. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle

 

[alfredmizen]

Yes it is, for what they CURRENTLY do. Now they are being asked to work extra unsocial hours. It's all very well saying 'I'd resign' if you have some two bit job that there is plenty of but there's hardly a huge amount of vacancies for tube drivers. Then again, why should you be forced to resign from your job because your employer wants to changes your working hours ?

This.

 

[alfredmizen]

One of the joys of NSC is that it has a real cross section of (very opinionated) people. Whether this is a good barometer for society as a whole I don't know. But I do believe it put us in contact with a lot of people from very different walks of life we wouldn't possibly normally connect with. So in this sense I feel we probably get a broader feel than our own social and work circles. And if me and Westdene Seagull agree something is good or bad it generally is

and me , what about MEEEEE!!

 

[Simster]

My point is that if my company changed my working conditions & I didn't qualify for redundancy I would resign. That's what people tend to do when they're unhappy.

You see, this is utterly contemptible. When did YOU last "resign" (walk away with no compensation) because an employer fundamentally changed your working conditions?

I'm not sure this is a pro-Boris or anti-Boris issue. I'm sure there are plenty of Labour supporters who disagree with the strike (me being one). It's lazy to suggest this is a party political thing.

It's got nothing to do with Boris, but as usual, he's full square behind the bullying employers. And I didn't say it was a party political thing. If you ask me, people like Boris Johnson should be keeping their mouths shut when it comes to disputes like this.

I fail to see how £50k + an extra £2k bonus + an above inflation wage increase is a "race to the bottom for the ordinaries".

This is why [MENTION=31796]alfredmizen[/MENTION] has said what he said. If I was an employer and said to you "You now need to go to Glasgow twice a week to do your job but you''ll clear an extra tenner a week." and you replied "no deal", would you expect people to have sympathy with you, or would you expect them to ask "What are you whinging about? Isn't £xxxk enough already?" Because that's what you're implying here.

We could go down the Greek route and horrendously overspend of course

Your argument is all over the place. At best, a straw man argument You honestly want to compare people exercising their right to strike over forcibly having their working conditions altered to Greek mismanagement of an entire economy, including a bloated public sector and ludicrously early retirement for all?

 

[Simster]

Did anyone else get a semi at the thought of you doing that nearly naked, or is it just me?

You can blame [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] for that, as he has regaled that precise image via email on a number of occasions.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Yes it is, for what they CURRENTLY do. Now they are being asked to work extra unsocial hours. It's all very well saying 'I'd resign' if you have some two bit job that there is plenty of but there's hardly a huge amount of vacancies for tube drivers. Then again, why should you be forced to resign from your job because your employer wants to changes your working hours ?

I would say £50k is a lot for driving a train, but I assume part of the reason for that wage is because they know they don't have lots of options outside driving a train. However, no one is FORCING them to resign. The point is, other people do resign if they really hate their jobs, and that is an option open to them. As I have said , I do have sympathy on the night shifts issue but that's part of the negotiations... you would hope the Union would force a limit on the number of nightshifts they do.

Employers do change working conditions all the time in other industries... maybe not as drastic as this, but they do.