Russian jet shot down ,WW3 about to begin ?

[symyjym]

I didn't forget anything. The main priority is that ISIS are defeated and that peace returns to Syria and Iraq. Yes, it is time for the Muslim world to start acting for the common good, it shouldn't have to be non-Asian forces eradicating Muslim extremists in Muslim lands. ISIS are exploiting divisions across the region, they'll all be ****ed unless they start working for peace.

I agree with you on this.

 

[Pavilionaire]

If we bomb in Syria there are bound to be mainland atrocities in the UK like the ones in Paris, all the more horrific if they come at Christmas or New Year. I'm not convinced the British people think this is a price worth paying for a bombing campaign.

It's clear we're not wanted in that part of the world, and nobody will thank us for anything we do there. I really don't see what good can come of our involvement in Syria in any shape or form.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I didn't forget anything. The main priority is that ISIS are defeated and that peace returns to Syria and Iraq. Yes, it is time for the Muslim world to start acting for the common good, it shouldn't have to be non-Asian forces eradicating Muslim extremists in Muslim lands. ISIS are exploiting divisions across the region, they'll all be ****ed unless they start working for peace.

Well, in that case, we're fUcked good and proper. Muslims working together for peace? Good luck with that. They hate each others guts. Ever since Mohammed carked it they've been arguing and beheading about who he wanted to be in charge.

If only he'd have SAID.

 

[symyjym]

He didn't say that they support Assad, but rather that given the choice they would choose Assad over ISIS in a heartbeat.

The more I think about this situation with the Russian plane, the more I wonder Wtf Turkey was doing?

They make it sounds as though there was an unresponsive plane in their airspace and for their own safety they shot it down. But Russia also happens to be bombing Syrian rebels who are fighting Assad and are supported by and very close to Turkey. Is that completely unrelated to this?

Because shooting down an unresponsive jet would be one thing, but if they did it in defense of Syrian rebels who they support against Assad, that would be much more wreckless I think.

Yep, if the Turkish backed Syrian rebels weren't pointing their guns at Assad, Russia wouldn't be trying to bomb them to the negotiating table. I believe that the democratic route was offered to them recently with air support if they turned their guns on ISIS, but this was rejected. I would imagine that this could give Russia the excuse to destroy the Turkish rebel groups and not give them the option to negotiate.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

If we bomb in Syria there are bound to be mainland atrocities in the UK like the ones in Paris, all the more horrific if they come at Christmas or New Year. I'm not convinced the British people think this is a price worth paying for a bombing campaign.

It's clear we're not wanted in that part of the world, and nobody will thank us for anything we do there. I really don't see what good can come of our involvement in Syria in any shape or form.

OK..because if we DON'T wade in they will just leave us alone? We might as well go down with all guns blazing IMO. It's also worth pointing out that for every beard who will hate us for wiping ISIS out there is another who condemns us for letting them carry on with the beheadings , rapes and crucifixions.

We can't win. Might as well chop as many of the buggers as we can, especially our own "British" jihadis before they come back to blighty with their know how.

 

[symyjym]

Well, in that case, we're fUcked good and proper. Muslims working together for peace? Good luck with that. They hate each others guts. Ever since Mohammed carked it they've been arguing and beheading about who he wanted to be in charge.

If only he'd have SAID.

Just don't mention the "Satanic Verses", which destroys Islam, to them.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Ground troops in, scorched ISiL, or leave it. Bombing a waste of time. Negociation a waste of time. Expecting Putin to 'come onside' a waste of time. Its time for those who may (US, UK, France, a few others) to decide whether to blink or go in, eyes open. I am not sure myself what's best (who the feck does?).

But don't forget, this has no more to do with Islam than the Nazis 'experimenting' on children (e.g., breaking limbs repeatedly to see how many times they would reheal) has anything to do with Chritianity, or even Germanity.

These maniacs want to convert everyone, and anyone who says' 'no, ta' will be exterminated. In some ways they are exactly like Cybermen.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

OK..because if we DON'T wade in they will just leave us alone? We might as well go down with all guns blazing IMO. It's also worth pointing out that for every beard who will hate us for wiping ISIS out there is another who condemns us for letting them carry on with the beheadings , rapes and crucifixions.

We can't win. Might as well chop as many of the buggers as we can, especially our own "British" jihadis before they come back to blighty with their know how.

Ramblings of a lunatic.

 

[sir albion]

Putin has been clear from Day 1 - he's against regime change in the Middle East. He was right about Iraq. He was right about Libya. He's been proved right in Syria. It's funny how Putin is being painted as this war-mongering mental case, when he's been anti-war for years & the West have gone ahead anyway. You're right - his aim is to keep Assad in power, and I'm sure oil plays a part. However, he also says that having a strong state is needed to combat ISIS in Syria. And he's right. Funny how the West are now suggesting that removing Assad isn't the main end-game now.

Say what you like about Putin, but he's been mainly right in the Middle-East. The West should be supporting his position after we've made such a mess in the last decade. FFS, we even decided it would be a good idea to arm "moderate rebels" in Syria, when it was blatantly obvious extremists would take those weapons given half a chance.

Spot on....Its also clear that Putin has a heck of a lot of information as he mentioned about the funding of Isis and much more.Im most certainly in the Putin camp regarding this.

 

[sir albion]

Maybe a nuclear bomb isn't out of the question as like most think it was near on impossible not so long ago.
Something very very big is brewing up

 

[Discodoktor]

Im totally naive. I also am untrusting of our media. But this is what I understand. Is anything missing?

Russia has been buzzing everyone ones airspace lately. Why?

No NATO country has shot down a Russian plane since 1950.

Last week it seems like Russia want to unite with NATO in fighting terrorism. Good!

Turkey shoots down one of it planes for going through it airspace. Wtf?

Russia react in a way which suggest they want peace. Turkey seem defiant in their actions.

Seems like incredibly bad timing for Turkey to shoot down one of their planes. Almost like it's not accidental despite several warnings.

Therefore someone needs to grab Turkey and say wtf are you doing? And tell Russia stop buzzing in people's airspace. You are both going to ruin Christmas at this rate!

In this scenario I would expect the following outcome

Turkey: "we don't recognise or celebrate Christmas"
Russia responds with "stuff Turkey"
And we all laugh and sit down to some vodka!

On reflection as pointed by more knowledgable people. They wouldn't all sit down to vodka. Muslims don't drink.

Turkey: "no your vodka is evil! It's an intoxicant and makes you lazy and illogical."
Now drunk westerner: "is it? Oh I find it helps with creativity and it's relaxing, peaceful and loving."
Turkey: hookah?
Russian : "that's sounds more like it lets get them in"
Drunk Westerner: "can mine come without a Burka?"

Actually this could have a sticky ending too.

It's quite complicated all this religious, capitalist war stuff. Why do all these rules, principles and guidelines really exist?

Can't we sit around the table and invent some new ones? That we can all agree on?

 

[dingodan]

We might as well go down with all guns blazing IMO.,,We can't win. Might as well chop as many of the buggers as we can.

You need to think about what you are saying, and what you sound like IMO.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

If we bomb in Syria there are bound to be mainland atrocities in the UK like the ones in Paris, all the more horrific if they come at Christmas or New Year. I'm not convinced the British people think this is a price worth paying for a bombing campaign.

It's clear we're not wanted in that part of the world, and nobody will thank us for anything we do there. I really don't see what good can come of our involvement in Syria in any shape or form.

The RAF are already bombing ISIS in Iraq and have used drone strikes in Syria I doubt the threat would change if we sent a few Tornadoes across a non existent border. If we adjust our foreign policy out of fear for terrorism we might as well give up.

Letting others carry the fight in the face of barbaric fascism might be pragmatic but it's not very edifying or British!

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Let's hope that doesn't include Istanbul.

Indeed. Let's not wake up to war with Russia tomorrow.

 

[sir albion]

We can bomb Syria year after year and Iraq year after year....will do absolutely nothing as we've seen in recent years.
Any Isis member can trot out of these countries as refugees or something else etc etc.
I can't believe we have all these different countries bombing one country

 

[Pavilionaire]

C

The RAF are already bombing ISIS in Iraq and have used drone strikes in Syria I doubt the threat would change if we sent a few Tornadoes across a non existent border. If we adjust our foreign policy out of fear for terrorism we might as well give up.

Letting others carry the fight in the face of barbaric fascism might be pragmatic but it's not very edifying or British!

But Syria is Russia's sphere of influence, by bombing we risk directly antagonising the Russians and that's not something we want to be doing. Two Russian planes have already been brought down and Putin will be under pressure to respond.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

C

But Syria is Russia's sphere of influence, by bombing we risk directly antagonising the Russians and that's not something we want to be doing. Two Russian planes have already been brought down and Putin will be under pressure to respond.

Spheres of influence went out with the last century, and the breakup of the USSR.

However, I agree that no good can come of the RAF getting involved in bombing. No exit strategy, no lessons learnt.

Save our missiles and equipment for if we need them against Putin in the Baltics ( or Turkey ).

 

[JC Footy Genius]

But Syria is Russia's sphere of influence, by bombing we risk directly antagonising the Russians and that's not something we want to be doing. Two Russian planes have already been brought down and Putin will be under pressure to respond.

Coalition jets (mainly US and French) have been bombing for some time our involvement would be no different. We are targeting ISIS if we were bombing Assad's forces your concerns would be justified as a direct threat to Russian concerns. Better sharing of flight plans and following basic rules of engagement procedures should avoid any more incidents.

 

[wellquickwoody]

That you don't understand what the word inflammatory means.

(You were confusing defamatory with inflammatory, in fact most people who quoted and commented on what I said made that same mistake)

I think you will find that I based my initial response on your use of the word 'evidence', not needed anywhere other than a court of law.

Pedant.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Spheres of influence went out with the last century, and the breakup of the USSR.

However, I agree that no good can come of the RAF getting involved in bombing. No exit strategy, no lessons learnt.

Save our missiles and equipment for if we need them against Putin in the Baltics ( or Turkey ).

Russia have a naval base in Syria. They see it as their territory in the same way they see the Crimea in Ukraine - where they also have a naval base - as their patch. It would help if we could replace Assad with someone acceptable to us, Russia and the Syrians, the Muslim equivalent of David Beckham.