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Russian jet shot down ,WW3 about to begin ?
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
symyjym
Banned
Turkey stopped violating Greek airspace after Russian Su-24 downing
From January to October 2015, Greece’s airspace was violated by Turkish warplanes 1,233 times, including 31 flights over Greek territory itself, according to the Greek Air Force’s headquarters. https://www.rt.com/news/323861-turkey-greek-airspace-violations/
Syrian Turkmen commander who 'killed' Russian pilot turns out to be Turkish ultranationalist
A Syrian rebel commander who boasted of killing a Russian pilot after Turkey downed Russian jet on Tuesday appeared to be Turkish ultranationalist and a son of former mayor in one of Turkish provinces. https://www.rt.com/news/323658-turkmen-commander-turkish-ultra/
From January to October 2015, Greece’s airspace was violated by Turkish warplanes 1,233 times, including 31 flights over Greek territory itself, according to the Greek Air Force’s headquarters. https://www.rt.com/news/323861-turkey-greek-airspace-violations/
Syrian Turkmen commander who 'killed' Russian pilot turns out to be Turkish ultranationalist
A Syrian rebel commander who boasted of killing a Russian pilot after Turkey downed Russian jet on Tuesday appeared to be Turkish ultranationalist and a son of former mayor in one of Turkish provinces. https://www.rt.com/news/323658-turkmen-commander-turkish-ultra/
Surprise, surprise, both Turkey and Russia are lying. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/turkey-shoots-down-russian-plane-astrophysicists-say-both-official-accounts-are-partially-a6752741.html
symyjym
Banned
It says in that report that the Russian jet probably entered Turkish airspace for 7 seconds. I don't know how long it takes the SAM to hit the target, but the window of opportunity is small. Turkey may have fired before it entered their airspace or when it did, but it could well have only reached its target after the jet re-entered Syria.
They said it was extremely unlikely Turkey issued ten warnings in five minutes.
Whatever the exact story is it was a dumb move by Turkey
GingerBeerMan
3-0
- Dec 29, 2011
- 8,028
Not legally obliged, only legally obliged if Turkey are defending themselves. If Turkey are flying outside their borders and get shot down there's nothing NATO can do as Turkey are the aggressor.
Bertrand Russell (History of Western Philosophy) has a good take on religion in general. To paraphrase, way bak when, life was so brutal and short for most people (due to crop failure, no idea about farming, and no rule of law, plus a very agressiove attitude to foreigners - i.e., the *******s who live in the crummy settlement half a mile away) that a notion of an afterlife was the only light at the end of the tunnel to make life remotely bearable.
So we made up the notion of an afterlife, and a benign creator. Consequently the psycopaths and maniacs of the day went around giving their view of what the creator wanted, claiming a special ability to communicate with the creator. The shamen.
In other words, belief, charisma, power, maniplulation, delusion, abuse . . . . crikey - fancy that.
The first thing that ever made sense in human history was the evolution of scientific principle, whereby if you had an idea you would design numerous experiments to disprove the idea, and if you failed time and time again, and lots of other folk with a similar commitment did similar experiments and found the same, then you would all agree that maybe you were onto something.
At the same time we invented technology. This is better than science, because it is based on science but you can show demostrably whether or not you are correct - if you are wrong, the thing you have made will not work.
Sadly we also invented politics as a means of keeping the peace between the rival religionists and the lords and legions who profited from it.
People, eh?
So we made up the notion of an afterlife, and a benign creator. Consequently the psycopaths and maniacs of the day went around giving their view of what the creator wanted, claiming a special ability to communicate with the creator. The shamen.
In other words, belief, charisma, power, maniplulation, delusion, abuse . . . . crikey - fancy that.
The first thing that ever made sense in human history was the evolution of scientific principle, whereby if you had an idea you would design numerous experiments to disprove the idea, and if you failed time and time again, and lots of other folk with a similar commitment did similar experiments and found the same, then you would all agree that maybe you were onto something.
At the same time we invented technology. This is better than science, because it is based on science but you can show demostrably whether or not you are correct - if you are wrong, the thing you have made will not work.
Sadly we also invented politics as a means of keeping the peace between the rival religionists and the lords and legions who profited from it.
People, eh?
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
Both articles from RT, which is Putin's State Propaganda Machine.
Both articles therefore have zero credibility, and pretty much no chance of containing much truth.
symyjym
Banned
Just because you object to RT doesn't mean there isn't any truth to a story. It's up to individuals who are interested to find similar stories out there to decide for themselves and form their own opinion..
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
Which is of course fine.
However, when RT is quoted I will always point out that it is Putin's massive state propaganda machine - or 'Putin Today', in other terms.
symyjym
Banned
No more than any other news media that toes the US line. Putin's position has been against the toppling of Saddam and Gaddafi, and now Assad, and I have always held these views myself before even hearing Putin's position. The British public believing the "Western media" through the Blair/Bush years is one of the reasons the world is a mess.
If I listen to the US and British governments narritive via Western news media, and things don't make sense, and I see Russian media that does make sense. That is up to me or anyone else to judge it as such without prejudice.
Don't forget that because you object to RT stories just in principle, it doesn't mean there isn't any truth to them. FYI I watch Aljazeera, BBC and Channel 4 as well, but for a clear idea of what role Russia are playing, it is good to see their position because they are very much involved in what is going on.
Both those RT stories have been reported via different sources, so to dismiss them because it's RT before double checking yourself, is as much about belittling my comment to other users, as dismissing RT tbh.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/greek-pm-hits-turkey-air-space-violations-151129205752698.html
http://www.businessnewsworld.com/ne...turns-out-to-be-turkish-ultranationalist.html
In future what I will do is include a Blue Valkyrie disclaimer ot the bottom of any of my comments that includes RT links, to save you the trouble in responding to it?
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
Russia Today is just the Kremlin's Information Warfare division. Packed full of lies and direct propaganda, no more, no less.
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symyjym
Banned
So you don't believe that Russia should be playing a part in Syria?
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
I have a neutral view on that. I am on balance slightly against any action in Syria ( and if I was an MP would vote against UK airstrikes ).
But I am passionately against RT being treated as a worthy news source. I find this take on it 'interesting', and it is one of many similar opinions.
http://new.spectator.co.uk/2014/12/the-truth-about-russia-today-is-that-it-is-putins-mouthpiece/
symyjym
Banned
The story says that RT promotes itself as a second opinion on the international stage and advises people to ‘question more’. Nothing wrong with that after seeing our mainstream news media's loyalty to the western/US narrative which has had its own costly flaws exposed. Anyone watching CNN or Fox News would benefit from acknowledging RT and the more sources we get our news from the better.
It also says that Russia Today's problem is that it is not keen on covering its national economic issues. I haven't got a problem with Russia not reporting their economic issues so this point shouldn't put anyone off taking note of their International position especially in Syria.
Don't forget that the owner of the London Evening Standard and The Independent, Evgeny Lebedev, is a Russian who is pro Putin, and I am sure you take note of these papers?
As I said, the links I gave you have truth to them.