[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[beorhthelm]

Of course thats his intention. The agreement signed days ago thats published as "Russia will base tactical nuclear warheads in Belarus", was actually an agreement that Lukashenko signed that gives Russia the right to station all sorts of military hardware, including aircraft etc and for Russia to make any decisions it wants in deploying those assets on Belarussian soil, without the need for permission from Belarus. This experts said, this gave Putin pretty much defacto control over Belarus by having unrestrained use of Russian military, missiles and airforce in Belarus..... now before the ink is dry, Lukashenko is in hospital with suspected poisoning should surprise nobody............

When Lukashenko dies, a puppet will be appointed for sure that gives Putin defacto control over Belarussian army too, but even without that, he can now act to crush any uprising or attempts to have any regime he doesnt agree with, using Russian military in Belarus without any required consent from Minsk.

i dont follow this line of thinking, as Putin relies on Lukashenko in Belarus. if he goes there is no certainty a replacement can maintain order or will be as favourable to Putin.

 

[peterward]

i dont follow this line of thinking, as Putin relies on Lukashenko in Belarus. if he goes there is no certainty a replacement can maintain order or will be as favourable to Putin.

Its not a "line of thinking", the agreement signed a few days back gives Putin defacto control of Belarus with ability to deploy any military assets to Belarus, nuclear/conventional and use assets including Russian military on and from Belarus without any say so of belarus or Lukashenko. Prior to that agreement, he did need Lukashenko consent, but now he doesnt.

Lukshashenko was never a massive supporter of Putins actions, he got in bed with Putin because hes the illigitimate president who stole the election, brutally suppressed dissent and the only gig in town for his survival was Putins protection, without which he wouldve fallen.
Even still, he has often rebuffed Putins advances to get Belarus military involved or for Belarus as a nation to be directly a partner of Putins war, as there is no appettite at all within Belarus, whose citizens in the main support Ukraine.

I dont know of all the whys and wherefors, but there is no doubt that Belarus being fully under the control and under the heel of Putin and Russia is part of Putins revised USSR2 pipe dreams blueprint (which is what all this about - its nothing to do with NATO, Nazis etc - its all Putins empire) and Lukashenko hasn't been a willing particient in that, but more dragged along reluctently by need of Putins protection and no other options.

Now Putin has his agreement, and can act within Belarus without any hindrance of Belarus govt, removing this awkward and often reluctant partner would make sense to Putin imho. He will want as little impediment to full Belarussian integration as as possible (and maybe the ability later to install puppet and command or commandeer Belarus army). He has the ability now to crush any civillain uprising or attempts at democracy or to install anyone other than his own puppet with the Russian military, he doesnt need a new leader to do so with Belarussian security apparatus.

Of course Lukashenko may not die, but if he does or was poisoined, the rationale as viewed from Putins sick murderous mind, is pretty clear imho

 

[raymondo]

Its not a "line of thinking", the agreement signed a few days back gives Putin defacto control of Belarus with ability to deploy any military assets to Belarus, nuclear/conventional and use assets including Russian military on and from Belarus without any say so of belarus or Lukashenko. Prior to that agreement, he did need Lukashenko consent, but now he doesnt.

Lukshashenko was never a massive supporter of Putins actions, he got in bed with Putin because hes the illigitimate president who stole the election, brutally suppressed dissent and the only gig in town for his survival was Putins protection, without which he wouldve fallen.
Even still, he has often rebuffed Putins advances to get Belarus military involved or for Belarus as a nation to be directly a partner of Putins war, as there is no appettite at all within Belarus, whose citizens in the main support Ukraine.

I dont know of all the whys and wherefors, but there is no doubt that Belarus being fully under the control and under the heel of Putin and Russia is part of Putins revised USSR2 pipe dreams blueprint (which is what all this about - its nothing to do with NATO, Nazis etc - its all Putins empire) and Lukashenko hasn't been a willing particient in that, but more dragged along reluctently by need of Putins protection and no other options.

Now Putin has his agreement, and can act within Belarus without any hindrance of Belarus govt, removing this awkward and often reluctant partner would make sense to Putin imho. He will want as little impediment to full Belarussian integration as as possible (and maybe the ability later to install puppet and command or commandeer Belarus army). He has the ability now to crush any civillain uprising or attempts at democracy or to install anyone other than his own puppet with the Russian military, he doesnt need a new leader to do so with Belarussian security apparatus.

Of course Lukashenko may not die, but if he does or was poisoined, the rationale as viewed from Putins sick murderous mind, is pretty clear imho

I agree with you 101% on Putin's intention and plan, and yes it's likely poisoning of the reluctant, anything-that-keeps-me-in-power (err duh) Lukaschenko. For me though, the big unknown is would/will the Belarusian military be compliant? Putin doesn't have enough troops IMO to subdue a noncompliant Belarusia.

 

[raymondo]

It's reading on twitter, telegram as if there was another cross-border incursion last night, this time back at Bryansk. Russia has denied it, so it must be true.
Keep them guessing, Ukraine (I mean Russian freedom fighters,)

 

[sparkie]

Interesting that one of the drones which hit Moscow hit the building where Konstantin of Inside Russia on YouTube - a Kremlin critic - has his Moscow apartment. What a coincidence. Fancy that.

 

[raymondo]

Interesting that one of the drones which hit Moscow hit the building where Konstantin of Inside Russia on YouTube - a Kremlin critic - has his Moscow apartment. What a coincidence. Fancy that.

It's incredible...

 

[peterward]

Russian Duma deputy, equivalent of a British Westmintser MP......... openly calling for fascist genocide.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Apology if fixtures, but from such a horrendous set of events have the Albion qualified for Europe?

Putin invades Ukraine.
RDZ is forced to leave the country.
The British Govt effectively kick Ambramovich out of Chelsea.
Todd Boehly then buys the Blues.
Sacks Tuchel and headhunts Potter.
And we hire RDZ as a replacement.


And the rest is history.


So what would have happened if Putin doesn’t start the war?

 

[Icy Gull]

Apology if fixtures, but from such a horrendous set of events have the Albion qualified for Europe?

Putin invades Ukraine.
RDZ is forced to leave the country.
The British Govt effectively kick Ambramovich out of Chelsea.
Todd Boehly then buys the Blues.
Sacks Tuchel and headhunts Potter.
And we hire RDZ as a replacement.


And the rest is history.


So what would have happened if Putin doesn’t start the war?

The world would be a safer place, thousands of dead people would still be alive and the Albion may not have avoided a relegation battle. I’d have taken it over getting into Europe

 

[Triggaaar]

Apology if fixtures, but from such a horrendous set of events have the Albion qualified for Europe?

Putin invades Ukraine.
RDZ is forced to leave the country.
The British Govt effectively kick Ambramovich out of Chelsea.
Todd Boehly then buys the Blues.
Sacks Tuchel and headhunts Potter.
And we hire RDZ as a replacement.


And the rest is history.


So what would have happened if Putin doesn’t start the war?

 

[A1X]

Apology if fixtures, but from such a horrendous set of events have the Albion qualified for Europe?

Putin invades Ukraine.
RDZ is forced to leave the country.
The British Govt effectively kick Ambramovich out of Chelsea.
Todd Boehly then buys the Blues.
Sacks Tuchel and headhunts Potter.
And we hire RDZ as a replacement.


And the rest is history.


So what would have happened if Putin doesn’t start the war?

Yeah, I really don’t think this is the thread for this discussion

 

[Triggaaar]

Yeah, I really don’t think this is the thread for this discussion

Exactly. While true enough, this isn't the place for it.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Brutal torture, mass rape, kids abducted, probably forever. Cities lie in ruin. Countless numbers of dead

Yeh, let's have a chat about whether it helped us qualify for European football

 

[heathgate]

they're retired for a reason - not very good - and wouldn't be viable with necessary training and engineering support.

We still run 5 fully effective frontline Squadrons, they have performed well in a variety of roles...

 

[Eric the meek]

Russian Duma deputy, equivalent of a British Westmintser MP......... openly calling for fascist genocide.

This ties in with an illuminating and - sobering - video I watched last night.



At nearly an hour, it's a bit long so just watch from 3:20 to 5:20. But if you can stick with it, watch until the end.

The bottom line is when Putin disappears, he will be replaced by another Putin.

 

[beorhthelm]

We still run 5 fully effective frontline Squadrons, they have performed well in a variety of roles...

comment was in reference to the first tranche of Typhoon, which RAF deem insufficiently capable to maintain in operational service.

 

[raymondo]

This ties in with an illuminating and - sobering - video I watched last night.



At nearly an hour, it's a bit long so just watch from 3:20 to 5:20. But if you can stick with it, watch until the end.

The bottom line is when Putin disappears, he will be replaced by another Putin.

Thanks, I'll watch later. As for the bottom line...yes, quite possibly. I'm unsure what needs to happen to change that outcome, but destroying the Russian military day by day, taking the defense and countetoffensive into Russian territory, the allies standing firmly behind Ukraine, speeding up the supply of longer range offensive wespons, and keeping up pressure on China's current stance...all needs to happen. Focus on the short and medium term urgently, and the longer term will have to look after itself for now.²

 

[raymondo]

Keeping up the pressure

Drones attack Russian oil refineries near major oil port, officials say

Drones attacked two oil refineries just 40-50 miles (65-80 km) east of Russia's biggest oil export terminals on Wednesday, sparking a fire at one and causing no damage to the other, according to Russian officials.

www.reuters.com

 

[Sirnormangall]

This ties in with an illuminating and - sobering - video I watched last night.



At nearly an hour, it's a bit long so just watch from 3:20 to 5:20. But if you can stick with it, watch until the end.

The bottom line is when Putin disappears, he will be replaced by another Putin.

Thanks for posting that. I guess that most countries will have shameful episodes of crimes against humanity somewhere in their history. But in recent modern history, Russia seems to be top of the league in terms of the millions of innocent people it has killed (directly and indirectly) including its own citizens. For the last 100 years or so it has consistently used violence, murder, intimidation and used hunger as a weapon, to get its way. They rival, perhaps even surpass, the Nazis in terms of crimes against humanity. Sadly, the behaviour of their leadership and army in Ukraine is not a great surprise - it’s what they do.

 

[Eric the meek]

Russia says US hacked thousands of Apple phones in spy plot

Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB) said on Thursday it had uncovered an American espionage operation that compromised thousands of iPhones using sophisticated surveillance software.

www.reuters.com