[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[dazzer6666]

I remember telling Chelsea friends decades ago that they had blood on their hands, no Russian gets that wealthy without many people paying. Of course none cared. Complicity exists at every level. Probably the chief reason amongst many why I’ve always despised Chelsea.

He hasn’t even owned Chelsea for 2 decades yet !

 

[LamieRobertson]

It’s not Hollywood stuff …doesn’t have to be ..but maybe an interesting video of leaving Kyiv late last week ..I imagine a heck of a lot harder now

https://youtu.be/hzBxFH_hEwA

 

[jakarta]

One word: nukes

Another word: Suicide...

 

[herecomesaregular]

Then you are advocating surrender. To the one who shouts the loudest.

Stand firm.

I cannot tell you how impressed I am with 1) Zelensky and 2) Ursula von der Leyen.

They are facing down the Russian bear. The bullying. The strong arm tactics.

You can do it as well.

No I am not. I am just concerned. And also hopeful, in equal measure. Maybe not too much more blood shed in Ukraine and Putin (and his crew) gone, with Russia turning around in the same way Japan managed to. But of course Japan got nuked and we must avoid that for anyone because it is a real danger, obviously. Facing down may work out ok but Putin seems a madman and facing down a mad man may not be the same as facing down a rational bully.

 

[PTC Gull]

Oops

 

[rogersix]

Because you have to consider the alternatives. Putin will be emboldened by victory and it will not stop. By not getting involved we are making others pay the price for our comfortable lives which I think is wrong. Ukraine has asked for more military help but we are suddenly rendered deaf because we think Ukrainian lives are worth less than Western European ones. Sometimes we have to stand up for what we believe in and if we don’t then what’s the point of organizations like the UN ?

there is zero chance the americans would risk direct nato involvement, so a futile avenue to explore, i'ld have thought

 

[LamieRobertson]

An example of how low they will go to punish dissent (an extract from DT)

“A video posted online shows a small girl in the back of a grey police van crying as she peers through the iron grille of the van's door.

In the background a uniformed police officer keeps watch.

Police in Moscow had detained five children, reportedly aged between seven and 11-years-old, with their two mothers, for carrying flowers and colourful hand-drawn anti-war banners to lay outside the Ukrainian embassy building.”

 

[Poojah]

Depending on your tolerance for reading thoroughly depressing analysis this chap has an interesting breakdown of the China / Russia relationship https://eand.co/is-the-world-going-back-to-war-a0a086c43f96

It’s an interesting (if depressing) read certainly, but it’s also highly speculative in its nature. If Covid taught us anything, it’s that stories which completely dominate the news as the pestilence did and Ukraine is right now, provide an excellent platform for subject matter ‘experts’ that weren’t previously in demand to gain notoriety.

And, such is the nature of ‘news’, the gloomier the outlook, the greater the likelihood of it floating to the top. I’d expect a lot of the forecasts and predictions we see in the coming days and weeks to be written or spoken with a smidge of added bleakness for that very reason.

For the anxious in particular, keep that in mind when you’re consuming current affairs right now. To that end, perhaps we need another good news thread for Ukraine, though in this case good news is often quite difficult to define.

 

[Jack Straw]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L5oTYjExgk

 

[dazzer6666]

Deleted

 

[rogersix]

Who knows Not saying it is the answer but if Ukraine gave up now far less chance of someones family killed and home bombed. I still think best way out will be mass protests in Russia. Maybe a mass leaflet drop to let Russian people the truth

you want planes in russian airspace? now?

 

[Eric the meek]

No I am not. I am just concerned. And also hopeful, in equal measure. Maybe not too much more blood shed in Ukraine and Putin (and his crew) gone, with Russia turning around in the same way Japan managed to. But of course Japan got nuked and we must avoid that for anyone because it is a real danger, obviously. Facing down may work out ok but Putin seems a madman and facing down a mad man may not be the same as facing down a rational bully.

My apologies. I am concerned as well. And I take your point about the madman/bully thing. But I hope and believe that the rest of the Kremlin aren't madmen, and are merely 'following orders', just like they've always done.

I can't see into the future, but as the economic pressure mounts, I predict change. Big change. The pressure that Putin is now under, will be immense. I took note of Steve Rosenberg's (of the BBC) observation that one day, Putin was telling the Ukrainians to lay down their weapons, and the very next day, he was telling them to rise up and overthrow their own government. A complete volte-face. And nobody had warned him not to do it. The Pentagon will have noticed this....

I wish I could put your mind at rest. All I can do is quote Churchill:

'I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.'

 

[Wozza]

Russia and Russian clubs removed from FIFA 22. Well, THAT'S done it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60593938

 

[rogersix]

Is this business worse than the invasion of Iraq ?

the kurds would say "yeah, considerably"

(not defending that one, either tho')

 

[pb21]

Depending on your tolerance for reading thoroughly depressing analysis this chap has an interesting breakdown of the China / Russia relationship https://eand.co/is-the-world-going-back-to-war-a0a086c43f96

Well that's definitely a depressing analysis but I do think that China will play a vital roll in how this all pans out. They seem to be very much on the fence / ambivalent at the moment, I would like to see them more publicly critical.

 

[A1X]

[tweet]1499049298037723136[/tweet]

 

[A1X]

View attachment 145669

Oops

I mean, he even looks like a clumsy sidekick from some 1970s film

 

[Eeyore]

View attachment 145669

Oops

Do you have evidence of this ? If not, don't post stuff like this.

 

[Eric the meek]

[tweet]1499049298037723136[/tweet]

The poor Russian police must be having to arrest hundreds of peaceful protesters every night.

 

[Poojah]

Well that's definitely a depressing analysis but I do think that China will play a vital roll in how this all pans out. They seem to be very much on the fence / ambivalent at the moment, I would like to see them more publicly critical.

A thought struck me earlier. Let's just say, hypothetically, that Russia (and / or China) managed to successfully nuke the entire western world off the planet (as depressing a thought as that is) and managed to stay relatively intact themselves, that's surely not great for their economies, is it?

That's where knowledge of economics starts to let me down; what would actually happen to the redistribution of wealth in the short-term, assuming that along with no western people, there are no western assets to seize ownership of either; just heaps of radioactive, smouldering land that used to be countries?

Surely Russia and China need a functioning west to prosper, but presumably they'd prefer one over which they had more power.