[Albion] Premier League 25-27/11/23

[pasty]

VAR seems to approach almost every goal with the question is there any possible way I can disallow that goal?

Nailed it. That’s been my beef with var for some time now. Every single time a goal is scored, the var seems to actively pursue a reason to disallow it. That is clearly not what it is for.

 

[rebel51]

Feel bad for Wolves I’ve seen them on the end of some truly atrocious decisions this season, Luton away, Liverpool at home, this one and there was another one as well… they are being robbed every week.

Easy to live in your own club bubble but I’ve never seen a run of VAR decisions like they’ve had, some horrendous officiating

Man utd, Sheffield utd add to the list, and Newcastle if I remember rightly.

 

[dazzer6666]

Meeting (IFAB) today to INCREASE use of VAR. Free kicks, corners, second yellows etc.

Meanwhile

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Wolves have had about as much shit with VAR as we have in the last few seasons.
From memory they really have had some shockers.

They’ve had a similar number of written apologies as us. Howard Webb was supposed to be improving PGMOL.
I see no sign of it, as yet.

 

[Me and my Monkey]

Ronaldo asks ref to overturn penalty he won

Cristiano Ronaldo convinces the referee not to award him a penalty in Al-Nassr's draw with Persepolis in the Asian Champions League.

www.bbc.co.uk

There's much not to like about the Portuguese Ponce, but every now and again he does the right thing. How refreshing.

Mind you, I'd imagine lower stakes make it easier to be magnanimous.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Same two refs as the Spurs debacle.

Similarly confusing inconsistencies with overruling/not overruling onfield decisions.

For us one of the two overruled goals stands, if you're being consistent.
For Wolves one of the two soft penalties isn't given , if you're being consistent.

Salisbury and Attwell are not good enough.

 

[BBassic]

Salisbury and Attwell are not good enough.

They'll both be officiating this week regardless. Or they'll be dumped down into the Championship to make an absolute meal of things down there instead.

Or they'll get removed from duty for the week, a paid vacation for gross incompetence.

 

[fly high]

They'll both be officiating this week regardless. Or they'll be dumped down into the Championship to make an absolute meal of things down there instead.

Or they'll get removed from duty for the week, a paid vacation for gross incompetence.

Both should go back to non league for a month & intensive training every day they are not refereeing a match. Total bollocks to just palm them off on some poor unsuspecting Championship clubs.

 

[BBassic]

Both should go back to non league for a month & intensive training every day they are not refereeing a match. Total bollocks to just palm them off on some poor unsuspecting Championship clubs.

Yeah it seems a touch disdainful of the Championship doesn't it?

"Oh these guys have made a right clanger (again) best give them a week in that hard as nails league that nobody gives a f*** about"

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Remarkably restrained interview which is a credit to O’Neil

Considering Salisbury was the VAR who didn't give the penalty against United, it is remarkably restrained.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Ronaldo asks ref to overturn penalty he won

Cristiano Ronaldo convinces the referee not to award him a penalty in Al-Nassr's draw with Persepolis in the Asian Champions League.

www.bbc.co.uk

There's much not to like about the Portuguese Ponce, but every now and again he does the right thing. How refreshing.

Mind you, I'd imagine lower stakes make it easier to be magnanimous.

Yes, easy to do it at Sunday league level.

 

[The Wizard]

This is given as a penalty… what the actual F, it’s mad that they look for any reason to disallow goals, yet this they went with the on field decision… Jesus wept

 

[gripper stebson]

VAR has runied football for me. To the extent that I am considering not bothering anymore.

The reason I love(d) football is that amazing 5 or 10 seconds when we score. The unbridled joy of being amongst like minded people - the feeling you can't describe to non football fans..

That's been taken away. I find myself sitting, arms cropssed, when we score now - waiting to see if I'm allowed to celebrate.

Not for me.

 

[The Wizard]

VAR has runied football for me. To the extent that I am considering not bothering anymore.

The reason I love(d) football is that amazing 5 or 10 seconds when we score. The unbridled joy of being amongst like minded people - the feeling you can't describe to non football fans..

That's been taken away. I find myself sitting, arms cropssed, when we score now - waiting to see if I'm allowed to celebrate.

Not for me.

Yes and to find out that moment has been taken away by a rogue toe nail or armpit hair, it’s absolutely horrendous.

This is where VAR is a problem because offside is black and white so even if they change the rules and allow more room for error, there will still be people arguing about toe nails, it’s overanalysed and over scientific, football was never meant to be micromanaged in such a way but this is what we’ve got now, and it’s not going to change anytime soon.

I remember when people used to say VAR would stop the blatant corruption and bias refereeing towards top teams, if anything it’s made the situation worse, when I heard Mike dean say he didn’t want to overrule his ‘mate’ as it would make him look stupid, that was the final nail in taking VAR officials seriously, so many football refereeing decisions are entirely subjective and so VAR officials are equally as susceptible as you and I are to disagree about a decision.

 

[Seagull58]

The madness of Salisbury and Attwell explained here:-

Fulham vs Wolves: Gary O’Neil left to fume after more VAR trouble

Fulham 3 Wolverhampton Wanderers 2: Willian’s controversial stoppage-time penalty leaves visitors empty-handed despite goals from Hwang and Cunha

www.thetimes.co.uk

I particularly like the "soft headbutt" explanation.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Yes and to find out that moment has been taken away by a rogue toe nail or armpit hair, it’s absolutely horrendous.

This is where VAR is a problem because offside is black and white so even if they change the rules and allow more room for error, there will still be people arguing about toe nails, it’s overanalysed and over scientific, football was never meant to be micromanaged in such a way but this is what we’ve got now, and it’s not going to change anytime soon.

I remember when people used to say VAR would stop the blatant corruption and bias refereeing towards top teams, if anything it’s made the situation worse, when I heard Mike dean say he didn’t want to overrule his ‘mate’ as it would make him look stupid, that was the final nail in taking VAR officials seriously, so many football refereeing decisions are entirely subjective and so VAR officials are equally as susceptible as you and I are to disagree about a decision.

And who was that Mate? Anthony "Bald Prick" Taylor.

Clearly don't mess with him when he's been sent to the monitor and feeling stupid.
Likely to lash out with a few cards.

 

[Pavilionaire]

We already have LiVARpool, maybe we should have WoeVARhampton Wanderers? What is clear is we cannot go on like this.

VAR presently sees it's job as the arbiter of ALL the big decisions, with the referee going along with 100% of all VAR decisions. Goals are chalked off on the flimsiest of evidence, the same with penalties given. And in this decision-making process, no weight is given to the position of the referee who has seen the incident with their own eyes just yards away.

There are many problems with VAR but two of the biggest are:

1. Clear and obvious error - this is a red herring, and has never been the basis on which VAR has been applied in the Prem.
2. No element of 'Umpires Call' or ability for the ref to direct VAR.

If VAR was just for clear and obvious errors you would then have a brand new problem of what to do about unclear and obscure errors, for they are still errors.

What seems to have been lost in all of this is the 'seeking to gain an advantage' aspect. In the majority of VAR offside decisions or penalty handball decisions it is clear the deemed offender has not gained any material advantage.

And with the advent of TV and VAR it is time to revisit the offside rule. The rules was brought in to deter players from always lurking around the goal looking for goalscoring opportunities and football becoming and endless round of launching it long. I wonder just how offside you had to be in those early matches for the linesman to raise his flag. I like the Arsene Wenger proposal that the entire body of the forward should be in front of the last defender to be considered as offside.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We already have LiVARpool, maybe we should have WoeVARhampton Wanderers? What is clear is we cannot go on like this.

VAR presently sees it's job as the arbiter of ALL the big decisions, with the referee going along with 100% of all VAR decisions. Goals are chalked off on the flimsiest of evidence, the same with penalties given. And in this decision-making process, no weight is given to the position of the referee who has seen the incident with their own eyes just yards away.

There are many problems with VAR but two of the biggest are:

1. Clear and obvious error - this is a red herring, and has never been the basis on which VAR has been applied in the Prem.
2. No element of 'Umpires Call' or ability for the ref to direct VAR.

If VAR was just for clear and obvious errors you would then have a brand new problem of what to do about unclear and obscure errors, for they are still errors.

What seems to have been lost in all of this is the 'seeking to gain an advantage' aspect. In the majority of VAR offside decisions or penalty handball decisions it is clear the deemed offender has not gained any material advantage.

And with the advent of TV and VAR it is time to revisit the offside rule. The rules was brought in to deter players from always lurking around the goal looking for goalscoring opportunities and football becoming and endless round of launching it long. I wonder just how offside you had to be in those early matches for the linesman to raise his flag. I like the Arsene Wenger proposal that the entire body of the forward should be in front of the last defender to be considered as offside.

There was once a phrase used as clear daylight.

Now, it seems to me as if referees and officials want to rule out goals. As fans we go to watch goals, and sometimes a 4-3 win is much more entertaining than a 1-0.
Forget it, as it is ruining my experience, and I suspect many others too.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

We already have LiVARpool, maybe we should have WoeVARhampton Wanderers? What is clear is we cannot go on like this.

VAR presently sees it's job as the arbiter of ALL the big decisions, with the referee going along with 100% of all VAR decisions. Goals are chalked off on the flimsiest of evidence, the same with penalties given. And in this decision-making process, no weight is given to the position of the referee who has seen the incident with their own eyes just yards away.

There are many problems with VAR but two of the biggest are:

1. Clear and obvious error - this is a red herring, and has never been the basis on which VAR has been applied in the Prem.
2. No element of 'Umpires Call' or ability for the ref to direct VAR.

If VAR was just for clear and obvious errors you would then have a brand new problem of what to do about unclear and obscure errors, for they are still errors.

What seems to have been lost in all of this is the 'seeking to gain an advantage' aspect. In the majority of VAR offside decisions or penalty handball decisions it is clear the deemed offender has not gained any material advantage.

And with the advent of TV and VAR it is time to revisit the offside rule. The rules was brought in to deter players from always lurking around the goal looking for goalscoring opportunities and football becoming and endless round of launching it long. I wonder just how offside you had to be in those early matches for the linesman to raise his flag. I like the Arsene Wenger proposal that the entire body of the forward should be in front of the last defender to be considered as offside.

The other aspect is that it has massively increased the risk/reward from diving on contact, in the penalty area.

 

[Bodian]

The other aspect is that it has massively increased the risk/reward from diving on contact, in the penalty area.

Which is perverse, as that's the one thing we thought it would stamp out.