[Misc] Poverty just now

[Dibdab]

im not clear what the expected solution is. we have a welfare system, thats apparently not enough. we have additional grants and payments for people, thats not enough. there are problems with cost of housing, and now cost of energy pressing, not enough assistance there. when i look abroad i see no country immune to these issues, none have a solution. where is the fresh thinking coming from?

 

[The Clamp]

Another Tory mess. And they still have some fools believing it’s not their fault AND that a labour government would be worse.

Plough the Tory’s and their voters into a ditch.

 

[beorhthelm]

"you'll own nothing and be happy" seems to be one approach, not convinced people understand what that means or would accept it. appears pushed by very wealthy advocates that will presumably be exempt.

 

[A mex eyecan]

"you'll own nothing and be happy" seems to be one approach, not convinced people understand what that means or would accept it. appears pushed by very wealthy advocates that will presumably be exempt.

you can be your bottom dollar on the latter.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The question is, will people vote for the party with 'good intentions', or give the Tory party (that has proven itself incapable of doing anything about it) another term to make it even worse?

I know what I'll be doing...

Quite. It will be interesting to see what leg the Tory party will actually try and stand on in two years time.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The Tory Party has divested itself of any meaningful policies to help the population and the country, it now just clings to power at any cost. As a nation and as a society we are grinding to a halt and going back to the 1800's.

I fear our country is doomed already and climate change will just accelerate the fall. We desperately need a government of national unity and a dash for green energy and jobs.

I feel the same. I watched a BBC article about Grimsby and the false hope of Brexit. There were numerous people in the piece saying they were let down/lied to by the Tories and they were now worse off than before; because of this most said they would not vote at the next election. What use will this do?

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

Quite. It will be interesting to see what leg the Tory party will actually try and stand on in two years time.

Neither, they will lurch from one catastrophe to another all the time looking to ride on the back of excuses, such as the Ukraine war.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

This country needs to build its industrial base again, basically starting from scratch. Couple that with the education and training to work in industry and the economy will grow and poverty will be reduced. Yes it will take investment, but if £100 billion can be spent on HS2, then why not.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Starmer and co seem to be full of good intentions, but will they deliver or make the same mistakes as the Tories?

Worthing is an apparent affluent area in the South East but my daughter who volunteers at the local food bank says they've got over 15,000 local people using this service now, replicate that around the country but in the arguably 'poorer areas' and we've got a poverty epidemic, which in the 21st century is nothing short of disgusting.

Brexit, dreadful miss-handling of Covid, three PMs in a matter of weeks, lies and more lies, misshandling of every scandal?

Hmm.....he'd have to be an appalling self-serving dick.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Meanwhile we pay £7K a month in benefits to sub-human scumbags with 7 kids and 36 dogs.

Couple on £7k monthly benefits whose children lived in filth with 36 dogs, jailed

Gemma Brogan, 41, and Christopher Bennett, 35, were sentenced in a Lewes Court on Monday, November 7 by a judge to six years each in jail. Judge Stephen Mooney said Bennett and Brogan…

euroweeklynews.com

What a disgraceful shambles 12 years of Tory rule has done to our country.

Yeah - but it would have been worse under Corbyn.

Of. When it's about Corbyn, it's would of.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

One thing i keep hearing in relation to this is the sky high housing costs (rent or mortgage payments) causing a lot of the financial problems being faced

The uncontrolled house price increases where they ran at over 10% a year which many thought was a good thing is now coming back to bite many, but especially the low income households and those who rent (paying the mortgages of others)

The trouble was it wasn't tackled at the time as the Government at the time was using it to keep the economy ticking over as many borrowed against the extra equity, adding to their debt. then during the 2008 crash, they artificially kept housing prices high to protect home owners from negative equity rather than allowing housing prices to fall to more affordable levels (New Labour - in fact they are still highly thought of by so many, despite laying the foundations for this disaster)

There were so many things that should have been done to cool that market (increase in stamp duty, controls on borrowing (so we didn't end up going from being able to borrow up to 3.5 times your salary, which increased to 10 times)

Now more of our wages go towards housing costs, people are less able to cope with financial shocks like we see now with energy bills spiking due to the Ukraine conflict and the knock on effect on global energy prices.

 

[beorhthelm]

This country needs to build its industrial base again, basically starting from scratch. Couple that with the education and training to work in industry and the economy will grow and poverty will be reduced. Yes it will take investment, but if £100 billion can be spent on HS2, then why not.

why is industrial base always brought up? it feels like a cliche and throwback to another era. yes investment and training good, doesnt need to focus on one area. then discountng the industry we do have, like building a large new railway, seems odd.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I feel the same. I watched a BBC article about Grimsby and the false hope of Brexit. There were numerous people in the piece saying they were let down/lied to by the Tories and they were now worse off than before; because of this most said they would not vote at the next election. What use will this do?

Or the people in Hartlepool being grateful for foodbanks because when Labour were in power, they didn't have any?
How do you combat that sort of logic?


In the meantime, there are 774 members of the House of Lords with Johnson adding in his mates very soon (more than the number of MEPs in Brussels representing 27 countries) all claiming £350 a day attendance allowance.
The royal yacht has been cancelled (surprise surprise) but still cost £2.5M for consultancy fees (more cronies?) just like the garden bridge (£24M) Irish tunnel etc etc.
We are being robbed blind, whilst the fingers are pointing elsewhere for blame.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

why is industrial base always brought up? it feels like a cliche and throwback to another era. yes investment and training good, doesnt need to focus on one area. then discountng the industry we do have, like building a large new railway, seems odd.

Because we have virtually no industrial base at present. The industrial revolution was a major turning point in global economies and industry still forms the basis of the worlds biggest economies, the USA and China. We were once amongst the world leaders in car, ship and aircraft technological design and production , and at the forefront of numerous other manufacturing industries. The service sector cannot help in the fight against poverty but industry can, if a government is prepared to reignite it .

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

why is industrial base always brought up? it feels like a cliche and throwback to another era. yes investment and training good, doesnt need to focus on one area. then discountng the industry we do have, like building a large new railway, seems odd.

One is better than none.

also, what did happen to Cameron's 'March of the Makers' program? Maybe someone could resurrect this?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

One thing i keep hearing in relation to this is the sky high housing costs (rent or mortgage payments) causing a lot of the financial problems being faced

The uncontrolled house price increases where they ran at over 10% a year which many thought was a good thing is now coming back to bite many, but especially the low income households and those who rent (paying the mortgages of others)

The trouble was it wasn't tackled at the time as the Government at the time was using it to keep the economy ticking over as many borrowed against the extra equity, adding to their debt. then during the 2008 crash, they artificially kept housing prices high to protect home owners from negative equity rather than allowing housing prices to fall to more affordable levels (New Labour - in fact they are still highly thought of by so many, despite laying the foundations for this disaster)

There were so many things that should have been done to cool that market (increase in stamp duty, controls on borrowing (so we didn't end up going from being able to borrow up to 3.5 times your salary, which increased to 10 times)

Now more of our wages go towards housing costs, people are less able to cope with financial shocks like we see now with energy bills spiking due to the Ukraine conflict and the knock on effect on global energy prices.

The tories and media would have gone ballistic if labour had done that, with absolutely no reason (before the American sub-prime lending triggered the crash).

And when they had their own chance, later, the tories did f*** all. 'Austerity', with maintenance of house property value 'growth' has driven a wedge between those who are on the property ladder and those who, for the time being anyway, appear unlikely ever to be.

 

[Notters]

More equal distribution of wealth appears to be the only completely unacceptable solution according to most parties in most countries.

With the only obvious solution deemed unacceptable or impossible, you're right that none has a solution.

That and job creation, something which the government seem strangely resistant of.

 

[beorhthelm]

Because we have virtually no industrial base at present. The industrial revolution was a major turning point in global economies and industry still forms the basis of the worlds biggest economies, the USA and China. We were once amongst the world leaders in car, ship and aircraft technological design and production , and at the forefront of numerous other manufacturing industries. The service sector cannot help in the fight against poverty but industry can, if a government is prepared to reignite it .

why not? never explained why service sector cannot employ more or provide better jobs than industry. just taken and accepted as an article of faith. according to world databank we have 2% less employed in industry than US.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

The other thing that is barely mentioned was long term wage suppression, especially for the lower paid.

I know many are opposed to Brexit, but before the pandemic struck we were starting to see inflationary pressure on wages for the lowest paid jobs as companies struggled to recruit for these roles, even if that led to higher prices in shops as a result of these higher wages. (for example, daffodil growers were struggling to get their crops picked, and were having to offer more in wages to fill roles meaning it was harder to maintain their £1 a bunch price point, but it is low wage earners who pick them and by having to pay more in wages, they'd benefit the most and be more able to afford the cost of living (The restrictions on the free movement of labour around Europe results in less workers available, so would be a driver of higher wages for traditionally low paying roles)

Simply less labour available on the market for a role, the more that they can demand in wages, a market with a lot of available workers for a role, then there is less pressure to pay more and leads to artificial methods to promote higher wages, like a national minimum wage being brought in, rather than being left to market forces.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

why not? never explained why service sector cannot employ more or provide better jobs than industry. just taken and accepted as an article of faith. according to world databank we have 2% less employed in industry than US.

The Industrial sector traditionally employs a high non academic workforce, much as construction does. They may not be academic but are nevertheless highly skilled with the right training. My point is solely that if the UK industrial base was reignited there would be many jobs created for those currently out of work or in unskilled low paid jobs once they’ve had the necessary training. Wouldn’t happen overnight but should be considered an option.