Police 'paid' to seek FBO's

[Dandyman]

I do't buy this argument about cost being a factor in police officers not showing their ID. Surely something with velcro is all that is required. And it should be a disciplinary offence not to wear it visibly. No excuses - if you've been given powers by the state over and above the ordinary citizen then there's a responsibility that goes with that. Fine the officer and the commanding officer at these demos. In fact, why is it not a basic check?

I'm genuinely puzzled and worried when police still turn up dressed like Judge Dredd but choose not to wear ID. It makes me wonder what their true intention is.

Totally agree. There is a culture of intimidation, threat and outright lawlessness directed at those deemed to be dissidents in any shape or form.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Question for those who don't object to being filmed, do you think that if the Police are filming you then you should have the right to film them ?

People stick cameras in my face all the time at work. Have I ever confiscated anyone's camera over it? No. I might occasionally feel it's a bit rude or inappropriate- for example if I'm at a crash holding the bits of someone's smashed up body/limbs together while the paramedics stick tubes down his throat and try to keep him alive, but I've never tried demanding anyone stop filming.

I'm probably on plenty of people's cameras. I can't stop them (mostly).

 

[BN9 BHA]

what is it to you ?

I will tell you what it is to me.
This is a public forum.
I watch police Tv programes.
Good enough for you?

 

[ozseagull]

You are clutching at straws now. That is because she was filming a stop search under the terrorism act. So like I said possible evidence.
Nothing to do with filming at football/ matches or protests. So I say again there is nothing to stop you from filming police going about their normal business or even policing events.

 

[ozseagull]

You are clutching at straws now. That is because she was filming a stop search under the terrorism act. So like I said possible evidence.
Nothing to do with filming at football/ matches or protests. So I say again there is nothing to stop you from filming police going about their normal business or even policing events. Try again?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I do't buy this argument about cost being a factor in police officers not showing their ID. Surely something with velcro is all that is required. And it should be a disciplinary offence not to wear it visibly. No excuses - if you've been given powers by the state over and above the ordinary citizen then there's a responsibility that goes with that. Fine the officer and the commanding officer at these demos. In fact, why is it not a basic check?

Velcro? How would that be any better than buttons or whatever? And it is a disciplinary issue.

I can't excuse every episode that's ever happened, but I've already said: there are plenty of people who like to get themselves little trophies from their run ins with the police, and if you're in a crowd trying to hold back a line of people trying to break into a site or whatever, it's not remotely unusual for a few of those individuals to try and rip the police numbers off.

It's part of their PR game to then claim the police weren't wearing them in the first place. This Balcombe episode appears a shambles, at least in the case of the Great Epaulette Scandal. There are hundreds of officers there, and someone is trying to make capital out of one single officer who isn't displaying one out of his two epaulettes?

I completely grasp & respect the expectation of transparency & accountability from the police but that element of this particular story is just ridiculous. In my humble opinion of course.

 

[seagurn]

banning orders , filming, taking photographs, informers, putting up faces in the local press you name it
regards
DR

A lot of our own fans do some of the above... sneaky pictures and videos nearly plastic plod.eh?

 

[Dandyman]

People stick cameras in my face all the time at work. Have I ever confiscated anyone's camera over it? No. I might occasionally feel it's a bit rude or inappropriate- for example if I'm at a crash holding the bits of someone's smashed up body/limbs together while the paramedics stick tubes down his throat and try to keep him alive, but I've never tried demanding anyone stop filming.

I'm probably on plenty of people's cameras. I can't stop them (mostly).

Unfortunately a number of your colleagues misuse terrorism laws and claims of obstruction to prevent people recording their behaviour. CCTV does also have uses as those who are aware of the case last season of one of our younger fans who was falsely accused of disorder and had his case thrown out when the footage clearly showed that he was not only entirely innocent but had been assaulted by a copper with history of violence.

 

[Buzzer]

Unfortunately a number of your colleagues misuse terrorism laws and claims of obstruction to prevent people recording their behaviour. CCTV does also have uses as those who are aware of the case last season of one of our younger fans who was falsely accused of disorder and had his case thrown out when the footage clearly showed that he was not only entirely innocent but had been assaulted by a copper with history of violence.

Spot on.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Police would only ever consider stopping or confiscating the film if is was evidence of offences.

Rubbish. The police often act first and think later.

 

[ozseagull]

Rubbish. The police often act first and think later.

Act first think later has probably saved numerous lives and caught numerous serious offenders. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Let's all give the police a good verbal bashing. Have you ever actually had first hand experience of your claim? Give us an example. Not from google search.

 

[GreersElbow]

Hmmm .....

Sussex Police purposely remove any identifying tags from their uniforms at the fracking demo
Met Police do the same for many London based demos
Met Police beat to death an innocent bystander at a demo
Sussex Police shoot dead a naked, unarmed person
A Met police officer admits that football matches are popular with officers because they can "put the boot in without comeback"
Police officers are implicated in selling information to the press

But a few examples that should mean anyone reading the story wouldn't be surprised !

I was present at the anti-tuition fee rise demonstrations. The December one, once everyone was kettled in Parliament square, the riot gear came on I.D numbers disappeared then all of a sudden trouble started. The other points are as valid, I'm incredibly skeptical of police officers. I don't understand why they don't sew their I.Ds into uniform. That way there's no excuses such as "it got pulled off".

 

[ozseagull]

I was present at the anti-tuition fee rise demonstrations. The December one, once everyone was kettled in Parliament square, the riot gear came on I.D numbers disappeared then all of a sudden trouble started. The other points are as valid, I'm incredibly skeptical of police officers. I don't understand why they don't sew their I.Ds into uniform. That way there's no excuses such as "it got pulled off".

If you had read the thread you would know the answer. A police officer answered. Cost. Every force in the uk now orders shirts from one manufacturer. To keep costs down they issues separate ID tags.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Act first think later has probably saved numerous lives and caught numerous serious offenders. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Let's all give the police a good verbal bashing. Have you ever actually had first hand experience of your claim? Give us an example. Not from google search.

We're straying off topic here. My response was a counter to your ludicrous idea that the police would only stop or confiscate film if there was evidence of a crime. History shows this is simply not the case.

And in response to the quoted post officers will not be damned if they operate within the rules and procedures laid down for them. They're there to not only protect us, but them as well.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

sorry, but if plebs like yourself didn't watch such programmes, they wouldn't be on.....simple as.....

thanks for your input
regards
DR

 

[happypig]

And you don't think that the police have influence in sentencing?

Police don't have influence in sentencing and if an individual police officer tried then one (or both) of two things would happen, they would be told, in no uncertain terms, to bugger off or would be reported, via channels, to a very senior officer.
It works like this: Parliament makes the law, Police enforce the law, Courts punish people who break the law. There is a distinct and (IMO) vital separacy.

 

[The Kid Frankie]

A few people have gone way off the original topic here... People with half a brain know that in a criminal court the police have NO power over the verdict (Jury) or sentencing (Judge). They gather and submit evidence via the CPS but that's it. The unreasonably harsh sentences handed out for football related offences is another matter altogether.

The point from the article is, in civil court it is a totally different affair. The burden of proof is much lower, and you can actually get done purely on circumstantial evidence. The judge/mags say that the FBO is a preventative measure instead of a punishment as a result of a conviction. If your convicted and punished you can't really complain - but imagine having not been convicted of a single offence but still being slapped with a ban a few years long...

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Arrested for wearing a t shirt. Really. Another bull story

You might want to tell our mate John Catt that !

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Police don't have influence in sentencing and if an individual police officer tried then one (or both) of two things would happen, they would be told, in no uncertain terms, to bugger off or would be reported, via channels, to a very senior officer.
It works like this: Parliament makes the law, Police enforce the law, Courts punish people who break the law. There is a distinct and (IMO) vital separacy.

Out of interest, who influenced the over the top sentencing for the UK riots a year or so ago? People were clearly being made an example of...so who made this decision?

 

[Da Man Clay]

Out of interest, who influenced the over the top sentencing for the UK riots a year or so ago? People were clearly being made an example of...so who made this decision?

Well, it wouldn't have been the police. I'd suggest there was a steer from the government. Either way you should be making an example of those involved in widespread disorder. Might make others think twice the next time there is a riot.