Plan B

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severnside gull

Well-known member
May 16, 2007
25,062
By the seaside in West Somerset
I will freely admit to having been caught up in the "we need a Plan B" debate, especially when tippy-tappy has failed miserably (Liverpool and West Ham) or, most recently, frustratingly (Hull and Cardiff). Gus has naturally fuelled the flames as only he can by emphasising our need for a hold up striker or target man to support CMS and although logically we could have looked atthe experiments with Billy Paynter and Sam Vokes and said "but when you tried it the Plan B didn't work (when did he ever willingly actually play the big man alongside Macca?) we all started looking at the likes of Jay Bothroyd, Emile Heskey and (whisper it quietly) Bobby Zamora.

So last night who do we sign as the" two metre man?
Stephen Dobbie.........all 5'8" of him!

And after a night and a morning to reflect I really could not be more delighted!
No more confusion.No more doubt. We play the Brighton way

So what now of Plan B?

If Plan A is to keep the ball and pass it patiently, deny the opposition the ball so they cannot hurt you and work space and opportunity with patience and possession - what do we do now when inevitably it fails? Do we now have an alternative or are we one trick ponies destined to fail because teams will suss us out? What happens when the curtting edge fails to cut and what happens when a misplaced pass costs us as (inevitably) it will. That surely is the fear.

But thinking about it (which is exactly what Gus asks the players to do on the pitch) we seem to have reached a final and committed decision to play "our style" with subtle nuances to make the difference rather than hammer blows.

We have already seen this season with Bruno in particular, that long crossfield passes can be hit with reasonable accuracy and change play to different areas of the pitch thoughtfully - not hit and hope into a crowded central area but put the ball in space and make defences turn and run.

We lack height in the centre but in passing on a winger who can be tricky but liable to spray crosses anywhere (don't knock it - with Mason's height in the middle for Cardiff they will get on the end of more of those than we ever did) we are looking to put the ball in with greater precision through Bruno, Bridge, Kazenga, Buckley, Vicente, Orlandi or Lucas - players equally able to play accurate passes through channels for our strikers or for the like of Crofts and Hammond to run through............... plenty of options there and plenty of choice. Subtle nuance replacing the schizophrenia of playing a passing game one minute and then going to hit and hope to try and find a big man.

Our patient build up will allow someone with a real engine and height like Hammond to get ahead of the ball into those positions that Murray used to occupy so well between the defence and the advanced striker and able to knock down or knock on an elevated through ball - more experienced than Trotter. More consistent by far than Trotter. But with all of Trotter's attributes that many on here admired. Dobbie considers himself a hold up player but can play in the hole behind an advanced striker. Barnes can play wide defensively or offensively in the hole. CMS will worry any defence.

Plan A not working? Then go to Plan A+! Don't change the style but adjust the direction of passing and the pace of the game. Bring Orlandi or Vicente off the bench to inject pace in the centre to match Buckley and LuaLua's pace out wide. Push Buckley through the middle and let CMS go out wide for the long diagonal pass.................... the options with a side that has the confidence and the consistency to maintain it's passing approach are fantastic. Dobbie as an added cutting edge replacing Hoskins with whom Gus has clearly lost patience is reverting to his clear intent at the beginning of last season. It failed because of fitness and because of our vulnerability in midfield and defence to power and pace. With Hammond and Crofts the midfield is now strong. With Bruno and Bridge we may leave gaps but we have the pace to recover.

I think we will chop and change legs in midfield to ensure that we compete specifically against the way some sides set up - alternately closing the game and the space or, more occassionally, playing a fully expansive game. Players will be able to commit knowing they will get the chance to rest.
Up front if you are the opponent who will you mark? Is CMS the threat or is Barnes the man to mark or Dobbie? And when you have that sorted what to do to cover Buckley or Lua Lua running at you, or Vicente, or Orlandi breaking through channels , or Hammond or Crofts running box-to-box? Too many options to mark.................
If CMS and Barnes aren't working bring in Dobbie or start with him and hold Macca on the bench. If none of them are hitting then Buckley, Orlandi or Vicente or Hammond or Crofts have proven ability to bring us goals from other areas of the pitch
Lack of height? Barnes and Dobbie can jump and we know that Hammond can get his head on the ball. We have players now to put the ball into the box with genuine precision and the class to look for a pass and not just to hit and hope. Let's see how those aerial specialist centre backs cope with the ball on the ground or at lower head height - the ball laid back or the ball to turn on to? Give away a free kick? Hammond....... Vicente?........LuaLua........Lucas?...............

I'm afraid Dicker might see his last regular start today and I can certainly see why Spaz and Vincelot have been told they won't feature. What we have added is variety, quality and experience...............................


I am so excited. I just hope that fans more used to "blood and thunder" will be prepared to watch and understand what we are trying to do.
 
Last edited:










stss30

Registered User
Apr 24, 2008
9,549
Dobbie describes himself as a 'hold up player'. You don't have to be tall if you have the ability!
 








Mr Burns

New member
Aug 25, 2003
5,915
Springfield
Have to agree with you their Mr Gull.

Although I would have liked to see a target man, Poyet does not use them correctly. What's the point of a target man, if he doesn't have someone with him.

I think we failed to get the big name big man, so we've gone back to Plan A, but now with options. After last season and the start of this, I still wonder if Poyet can pick a side and chnage things when needed, but I am in a far more happy place than I was a few days ago.

Would have been interesting to go to Burnley today, but couldn't make it, but apart from the back 5 and maybe Bridcutt, I think everyone is playing for a place against Sheff Weds.
 




Stoo82

GEEZUS!
Jul 8, 2008
7,530
Hove
I like it. With music and a video, it would have been better!

This whole Hammond thing, i'm going to give him the benifit of the doubt. Will be a good player for us. Maybe not a popular one, but a good one.
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
74,331
I will freely admit to having been caught up in the "we need a Plan B" debate, especially when tippy-tappy has failed miserably (Liverpool and West Ham) or, most recently, frustratingly (Hull and Cardiff). Gus has naturally fuelled the flames as only he can by emphasising our need for a hold up striker or target man to support CMS and although logically we could have looked atthe experiments with Billy Paynter and Sam Vokes and said "but when you tried it the Plan B didn't work (when did he ever willingly actually play the big man alongside Macca?) we all started looking at the likes of Jay Bothroyd, Emile Heskey and (whisper it quietly) Bobby Zamora.

So last night who do we sign as the" two metre man?
Stephen Dobbie.........all 5'8" of him!

And after a night and a morning to reflect I really could not be more delighted!
No more confusion.No more doubt. We play the Brighton way

So what now of Plan B?

If Plan A is to keep the ball and pass it patiently, deny the opposition the ball so they cannot hurt you and work space and opportunity with patience and possession - what do we do now when inevitably it fails? Do we now have an alternative or are we one trick ponies destined to fail because teams will suss us out? What happens when the curtting edge fails to cut and what happens when a misplaced pass costs us as (inevitably) it will. That surely is the fear.

But thinking about it (which is exactly what Gus asks the players to do on the pitch) we seem to have reached a final and committed decision to play "our style" with subtle nuances to make the difference rather than hammer blows.

We have already seen this season with Bruno in particular, that long crossfield passes can be hit with reasonable accuracy and change play to different areas of the pitch thoughtfully - not hit and hope into a crowded central area but put the ball in space and make defences turn and run.

We lack height in the centre but in passing on a winger who can be tricky but liable to spray crosses anywhere (don't knock it - with Mason's height in the middle for Cardiff they will get on the end of more of those than we ever did) we are looking to put the ball in with greater precision through Bruno, Bridge, Kazenga, Buckley, Vicente, Orlandi or Lucas - players equally able to play accurate passes through channels for our strikers or for the like of Crofts and Hammond to run through............... plenty of options there and plenty of choice. Subtle nuance replacing the schizophrenia of playing a passing game one minute and then going to hit and hope to try and find a big man.

Our patient build up will allow someone with a real engine and height like Hammond to get ahead of the ball into those positions that Murray used to occupy so well between the defence and the advanced striker and able to knock down or knock on an elevated through ball - more experienced than Trotter. More consistent by far than Trotter. But with all of Trotter's attributes that many on here admired. Dobbie considers himself a hold up player but can play in the hole behind an advanced striker. Barnes can play wide defensively or offensively in the hole. CMS will worry any defence.

Plan A not working? Then go to Plan A+! Don't change the style but adjust the direction of passing and the pace of the game. Bring Orlandi or Vicente off the bench to inject pace in the centre to match Buckley and LuaLua's pace out wide. Push Buckley through the middle and let CMS go out wide for the long diagonal pass.................... the options with a side that has the confidence and the consistency to maintain it's passing approach are fantastic. Dobbie as an added cutting edge replacing Hoskins with whom Gus has clearly lost patience is reverting to his clear intent at the beginning of last season. It failed because of fitness and because of our vulnerability in midfield and defence to power and pace. With Hammond and Crofts the midfield is now strong. With Bruno and Bridge we may leave gaps but we have the pace to recover.

I think we will chop and change legs in midfield to ensure that we compete specifically against the way some sides set up - alternately closing the game and the space or, more occassionally, playing a fully expansive game. Players will be able to commit knowing they will get the chance to rest.
Up front if you are the opponent who will you mark? Is CMS the threat or is Barnes the man to mark or Dobbie? And when you have that sorted what to do to cover Buckley or Lua Lua running at you, or Vicente, or Orlandi breaking through channels , or Hammond or Crofts running box-to-box? Too many options to mark.................
If CMS and Barnes aren't working bring in Dobbie or start with him and hold Macca on the bench. If none of them are hitting then Buckley, Orlandi or Vicente or Hammond or Crofts have proven ability to bring us goals from other areas of the pitch
Lack of height? Barnes and Dobbie can jump and we know that Hammond can get his head on the ball. We have players now to put the ball into the box with genuine precision and the class to look for a pass and not just to hit and hope. Let's see how those aerial specialist centre backs cope with the ball on the ground or at lower head height - the ball laid back or the ball to turn on to? Give away a free kick? Hammond....... Vicente?........LuaLua........Lucas?...............

I'm afraid Dicker might see his last regular start today and I can certainly see why Spaz and Vincelot have been told they won't feature. What we have added is variety, quality and experience...............................


I am so excited. I just hope that fans more used to "blood and thunder" will be prepared to watch and understand what we are trying to do.

Care to expand?
 




stss30

Registered User
Apr 24, 2008
9,549
Have to agree with you their Mr Gull.

Although I would have liked to see a target man, Poyet does not use them correctly. What's the point of a target man, if he doesn't have someone with him.

I think we failed to get the big name big man, so we've gone back to Plan A, but now with options. After last season and the start of this, I still wonder if Poyet can pick a side and chnage things when needed, but I am in a far more happy place than I was a few days ago.

Would have been interesting to go to Burnley today, but couldn't make it, but apart from the back 5 and maybe Bridcutt, I think everyone is playing for a place against Sheff Weds.

Completely agree, lets face it, it's was the offensive aspect of our game which was letting us down last year, but we were ridden with injuries and couldn't switch it up. Now we have so many attacking options, it can be all changed if the front 6 don't perform.
 


El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
40,219
Pattknull med Haksprut
Have to agree with you their Mr Gull.

Although I would have liked to see a target man, Poyet does not use them correctly. What's the point of a target man, if he doesn't have someone with him.

I think we failed to get the big name big man, so we've gone back to Plan A, but now with options. After last season and the start of this, I still wonder if Poyet can pick a side and chnage things when needed, but I am in a far more happy place than I was a few days ago.

Would have been interesting to go to Burnley today, but couldn't make it, but apart from the back 5 and maybe Bridcutt, I think everyone is playing for a place against Sheff Weds.

Couple of points, (1) Poyet seemed to use a target man well in the shape of Murray though.

(2) The three players we signed last night are not eligible to play against Burnley, so you are not missing much, apart from the racist shithole of Lancashire, so suspect you are doing the right thing waiting for the Wednesday game!
 


stss30

Registered User
Apr 24, 2008
9,549
Couple of points, (1) Poyet seemed to use a target man well in the shape of Murray though.

(2) The three players we signed last night are not eligible to play against Burnley, so you are not missing much, apart from the racist shithole of Lancashire, so suspect you are doing the right thing waiting for the Wednesday game!

I think he means all the forward players now realize they have competition so will be trying to impress to keep their position in the starting 11.
 








Mr Burns

New member
Aug 25, 2003
5,915
Springfield
Couple of points, (1) Poyet seemed to use a target man well in the shape of Murray though.

(2) The three players we signed last night are not eligible to play against Burnley, so you are not missing much, apart from the racist shithole of Lancashire, so suspect you are doing the right thing waiting for the Wednesday game!
He used Murray fantasically as a target man, which mae the decisson to let him walk over a couple of grand a week, and the fact he never used last season loan target mans the same way even more worrying.

I know we can't play yesterdays signings at Burnley, but it would be interesting to see any difference in the midfield and strikers. I think CMS and Barnes may have brought themselves a game or two with the Barnsley performance, but when the dust settles I could well see Dicker, Barnes, and maybe even Crofts struggling to hold down a regular place. I think CMS will be okay, but I can't see a lone striker finishing many games he starts from now on.
 






El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
40,219
Pattknull med Haksprut
He used Murray fantasically as a target man, which mae the decisson to let him walk over a couple of grand a week, and the fact he never used last season loan target mans the same way even more worrying.

I know we can't play yesterdays signings at Burnley, but it would be interesting to see any difference in the midfield and strikers. I think CMS and Barnes may have brought themselves a game or two with the Barnsley performance, but when the dust settles I could well see Dicker, Barnes, and maybe even Crofts struggling to hold down a regular place. I think CMS will be okay, but I can't see a lone striker finishing many games he starts from now on.

I am as big a Murray fan as you, but six goals last season makes me wonder if perhaps he isn't quite as good as I believed him to be.

Agree that the competition for places for the front five (back four and Bridcutt are certs surely) will be fascinating.
 




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