[News] Pizza Express customer punches a vegan

[wellquickwoody]

I find the fact that an awful lot treehuggers are either vegetarian or vegan the epitome of hypocrisy.

 

[Seasider78]

Help needed.

I've always wondered about pain and cruelty to animals in the sport of fishing - here I must declare some ignorance to the fish anatomy.
1. Does that sharp hook in your gob attached to a long line being yanked very hard cause any discomfort [sure would for me].
2. Does a fish out of water die of asphyxiation [like we might under water]? [I can't imagine the panic that sets in during those few moments]
3. How long does it take for a fish to die out of water? Is it long and slow or do they black-out quickly?
4. When caught and put in a keep-net, does this feel like we might if locked in a 6x6 cell?

Don't get me wrong, I'll not be patrolling the river banks telling fisher-folk they are wrong to do what they're doing - live and let live has always been my life motto.

Now, where did I leave that megaphone?

Some studies have been carried out that suggest fish do not feel or recognise pain like humans. Fish will die if left out of the water for long periods and should always be returned as quickly as possible and keep nets IMO are just wrong.

I have seen a lot of good and bad fishing practices over the years on the bank. On the bad side you see people dragging fish into the bank, handling without watering the fish and keeping out for ages for photos (or dropping in some cases) and personally have never competed in fishing where keepnet usage is most common.

The other side I have seen is with clubs on the rivers who often work side by side with the EA logging and sharing catch details and generally show far more care and respect for the fish. Bailiffs patrol and pick up on bad fishing practices (barbed hook usage, small nets, no unhooking mat etc). Work parties are common with the EA to create and support breeding grounds, clearing blockages, introducing fish to the ecosystem and monitoring and recording fish stocks in the rivers. Of course this is all against a backdrop of hook and line fishing but you see much smaller fisherman numbers on the rivers and on balance I would say the rivers and species are benefiting more from the anglers

 

[Palacefinder General]

Help needed.

I've always wondered about pain and cruelty to animals in the sport of fishing - here I must declare some ignorance to the fish anatomy.
1. Does that sharp hook in your gob attached to a long line being yanked very hard cause any discomfort [sure would for me].
2. Does a fish out of water die of asphyxiation [like we might under water]? [I can't imagine the panic that sets in during those few moments]
3. How long does it take for a fish to die out of water? Is it long and slow or do they black-out quickly?
4. When caught and put in a keep-net, does this feel like we might if locked in a 6x6 cell?

Don't get me wrong, I'll not be patrolling the river banks telling fisher-folk they are wrong to do what they're doing - live and let live has always been my life motto.

Now, where did I leave that megaphone?

Never understood the appeal of fishing, specifically amateur sea fishing, reeling in a living thing with a hook in its mouth and presiding over its demise as it gasps its last, tail flaps gradually receding. As a hobby I can think of several hundred other pursuits I’d choose before I’d think “Hooking fish and watching them suffocate and suffer would be a nice way to spend the afternoon.” Each to their own, but it’s never something that’s remotely appealed.

 

[Hamilton]

Why should people just going about their every day lives have shouting megaphone wielding militant vegans interrupting a family meal? Pizza express in my experience is a place where you see quite a lot of families, seems an inappropriate place to have this protest. ‘Better to talk to them’ sorry but having come across these groups before they don’t want to talk, some might but the loud ones overpower the quiet more reasonable ones.

You think going into a pizza express with megaphones and signs is going to change anyone wanting to eat their pepperoni pizza? I just can’t agree with these methods of ‘protest’ and what they are doing is alienating people more.

I've not said I condone the approach, I've said I understand what is going on.

And, to be honest, the meat industry is bad for all of us, not in terms of animal welfare but in terms of how it contributes to global emissions. If we are going to address the real challenges we face then we have to stop eating meat in the quantities we do.

Of course, this is not the vegan agenda, but if a by-product of that is that we address our meat-based diet, then that's a good thing.

As to their approach, I often find that if you meet aggression with aggression then you get more aggression.

 

[Hamilton]

You support the cause therefore you condone the methods?

What would your reaction be if pro-brexit supporters were doing the same thing?

See my post above. I don't condone the methods. I understand them, and I understand why they feel direct action is required.

If pro-Brexit supporters were doing the same thing, then I'd try to apply the same principles - talk to them.

Although why pro-Brexit supporters would be in Pizza Express I have no idea

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

"Beta males"

Hello King Beta

Hope you're keeping well.

 

[The Clamp]

Wow..

What a friendly chap

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10037...female-vegan-activist-pizza-express-brighton/

Exactly how I imagine Ppf to look and act like. If he could afford to eat in Pizza Express.

 

[zefarelly]

Never understood the appeal of fishing, specifically amateur sea fishing, reeling in a living thing with a hook in its mouth and presiding over its demise as it gasps its last, tail flaps gradually receding. As a hobby I can think of several hundred other pursuits I’d choose before I’d think “Hooking fish and watching them suffocate and suffer would be a nice way to spend the afternoon.” Each to their own, but it’s never something that’s remotely appealed.

Me neither, but there is a certain satisfaction in coming home with a juicy sea bass for dinner. Not that I've done it since I was a kid . . .

 

[The Clamp]

Genuinely quite disappointing the amount of people on here that think punching a woman is perfectly acceptable or to be applauded.
If I was having a night out in Pizza Express or anywhere that cheap and cheerful, I would love it if a group like that came in. I'd order another beer and some extra dough balls, sit back and watch the spectacle.

Punching a woman indeed! Were you dragged up?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Hey you guys...

 

[The Clamp]

The old school in me tends to agree with you but sadly we are now living in a very aggressive world with a gender free lust for being both provocative in a nasty way and mr/ms Angry reacting in a way that in the past would not be acceptable.

In other words, back when women knew to keep their pie-holes shut we didn't have to slap them about.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Genuinely quite disappointing the amount of people on here that think punching a woman is perfectly acceptable or to be applauded.
If I was having a night out in Pizza Express or anywhere that cheap and cheerful, I would love it if a group like that came in. I'd order another beer and some extra dough balls, sit back and watch the spectacle.

Punching a woman indeed! Were you dragged up?

Not at all, just adapted with the times, sexism means sexism, as PPF might say.

 

[The Clamp]

Not at all, just adapted with the times, sexism means sexism, as PPF might say.

Sorry, you have lost me. Sexism?

Anyway, quite interesting just how quickly the baldy man resorted to throwing punches. They were only in there about 10 seconds and he's punched one in the face. His poor wife.

 

[abc]

Genuinely quite disappointing the amount of people on here that think punching a woman is perfectly acceptable or to be applauded.
If I was having a night out in Pizza Express or anywhere that cheap and cheerful, I would love it if a group like that came in. I'd order another beer and some extra dough balls, sit back and watch the spectacle.

Punching a woman indeed! Were you dragged up?

The first issue is whether punching anyone is 'perfectly acceptable' and the answer is generally not. Violence almost always escalates a situation and unless there is a genuinely just cause (eg your safety is under threat - clearly not the case here) to use it, then don't. On this basis the man should not have punched anyone, male or female.

The problem is that there are groups of people (with varying 'causes') who are imposing their beliefs on people in often aggressive and always intrusive ways. How do ordinary people react? In this case what gives these protesters the right to impose themselves on ordinary peoples' family night out and why should they just 'sit back and watch the spectacle'? It is inevitable that tempers will boil over and lets never forget that it is the protesters themselves that have created the situation, deliberately.

IF it is right or at least understandable (I personally would say the latter) that the man reacted by hitting out, then does it make any difference whether the target was a man or woman? Is it a question of physical size? If so, would you raise the same objection if a big man hit a small one? Or is it a question of 'chivalry' (by that I mean the code that we were all brought up with - never hit a woman)? If so, is that not a concept now outdated and even considered sexist in itself? Furthermore the woman in question created the situation through her own actions and therefore has to accept the 'consequences'.

Whether you agree a 'reasonable' consequence was being punched is one thing but I cant see the relevance of whether the target was male or female.

 

[The Clamp]

The first issue is whether punching anyone is 'perfectly acceptable' and the answer is generally not. Violence almost always escalates a situation and unless there is a genuinely just cause (eg your safety is under threat - clearly not the case here) to use it, then don't. On this basis the man should not have punched anyone, male or female.

The problem is that there are groups of people (with varying 'causes') who are imposing their beliefs on people in often aggressive and always intrusive ways. How do ordinary people react? In this case what gives these protesters the right to impose themselves on ordinary peoples' family night out and why should they just 'sit back and watch the spectacle'? It is inevitable that tempers will boil over and lets never forget that it is the protesters themselves that have created the situation, deliberately.

IF it is right or at least understandable (I personally would say the latter) that the man reacted by hitting out, then does it make any difference whether the target was a man or woman? Is it a question of physical size? If so, would you raise the same objection if a big man hit a small one? Or is it a question of 'chivalry' (by that I mean the code that we were all brought up with - never hit a woman)? If so, is that not a concept now outdated and even considered sexist in itself? Furthermore the woman in question created the situation through her own actions and therefore has to accept the 'consequences'.

Whether you agree a 'reasonable' consequence was being punched is one thing but I cant see the relevance of whether the target was male or female.

I agree with some of what you say.

 

[abc]

I've not said I condone the approach, I've said I understand what is going on.

And, to be honest, the meat industry is bad for all of us, not in terms of animal welfare but in terms of how it contributes to global emissions. If we are going to address the real challenges we face then we have to stop eating meat in the quantities we do/QUOTE]

Partially true. The issue is largely about how meat is produced. Intensive systems with animals fed on feeds grown on land following destruction of rain forest, for example, is clearly disastrous. As is the production of palm oil (not associated with meat consumption obviously) which has created a disastrous monoculture where vast areas of the planet were under forest.

Where meat is produced in extensive systems (ie grazing) then the story is different because there is a closed loop between emissions and the role of grassland in acting as a carbon sink. Indeed the much quoted UN report states that in such cases livestock farming will be 'part of the solution'.

Adding in the need for a greater focus on animal welfare and the result will be less meat produced but in a planet and welfare friendly manner. This will inevitably make meat more expensive and people will therefore eat less.

 

[Hamilton]

I've not said I condone the approach, I've said I understand what is going on.

And, to be honest, the meat industry is bad for all of us, not in terms of animal welfare but in terms of how it contributes to global emissions. If we are going to address the real challenges we face then we have to stop eating meat in the quantities we do/QUOTE]

Partially true. The issue is largely about how meat is produced. Intensive systems with animals fed on feeds grown on land following destruction of rain forest, for example, is clearly disastrous. As is the production of palm oil (not associated with meat consumption obviously) which has created a disastrous monoculture where vast areas of the planet were under forest.

Where meat is produced in extensive systems (ie grazing) then the story is different because there is a closed loop between emissions and the role of grassland in acting as a carbon sink. Indeed the much quoted UN report states that in such cases livestock farming will be 'part of the solution'.

Adding in the need for a greater focus on animal welfare and the result will be less meat produced but in a planet and welfare friendly manner. This will inevitably make meat more expensive and people will therefore eat less.

I think you've just agreed with me. But, I'll take 'partially true'

 

[The Clamp]

Lovely ad bar telling me where my nearest McDonalds is. Lovely stuff.
I often have a fillet o fish. So I’m doing my bit.

 

[mikeyjh]

That’s not really the right analogy. These animals are raised solely for their meat or milk. A lamb doesn’t have a happy and fulfilling life, it has the most cost effective life possible before it is used for our food. Your example is about an unborn human, who should have just the same opportunities to have a happy life as everyone else, but has been discovered to have a birth defect which might mean they have a very difficult life instead. That is a tough debate but nothing to do with using animals for food.

While I don't disagree with the point of your thread, I just wanted to comment on this - Farmed animals are not all equal and by comparison to (for example) chickens, Lambs don't have a bad time of it. I have sheep on my land, they tend to spend their lives wandering out eating, occasionally arguing with each over about a small patch of grass but generally living a sheepy life only visited by the farmer when they need additional food or, in the ewes' case to be sheared. They're quite wild (their 'flight zone' is huge, about 50 yards) and quite happy for their short lives....

 

[Bakero]

While I don't disagree with the point of your thread, I just wanted to comment on this - Farmed animals are not all equal and by comparison to (for example) chickens, Lambs don't have a bad time of it. I have sheep on my land, they tend to spend their lives wandering out eating, occasionally arguing with each over about a small patch of grass but generally living a sheepy life only visited by the farmer when they need additional food or, in the ewes' case to be sheared. They're quite wild (their 'flight zone' is huge, about 50 yards) and quite happy for their short lives....

Classic ram argument.