Piers Morgan should be tried and imprisoned.

[Simster]

Maybe you can answer the question that no Nationalist has answered to me yet, how do you get a population to accept unification when your blowing them to bits?

Good point well made. And yes we all know that both sides are/were at it, but that still doesn't answer Looney's question.

 

[London Irish]

Looney, mate, you've got me bang to rights, I'll come quitely. What gave me away, the traces of semtex on my replica shirt?

 

[London Irish]

Nope, he's right on that one. You can't bounce a majority into something they don't want to do. The British Army went in to keep 2 feuding sides apart and I for one am tired (as an Englishman) of being told by assorted celtic types that we're to blame for everything. If the British moved out blah blah ... MY ARSE. If you were a proddy and in Northern Ireland and took a look at population shifts (10% of Eire was protestant before the war, now it's 2%) you too would be concerned if a united Ireland was on the cards, and rightly so.

(For the record, I do believe a united Ireland would be the best solution but it's got to be done on the terms of the majority and that idea will take time to swallow. I reckon special status would need to be given to Ulster with powers of veto, a bit like Quebec has in Canada)

Simster, go and speak with the protestants in Donegal and ask them if they are unhappy living in a United Ireland - no, their businesses and farms are thriving and sectarian bigotry is a thing of the past. I spend every summer getting pissed with these lads and that's the basis of my confidence.

 

[looney]

Yea ok, but are you going to answer any of the questions?

Btw
Its strategically risky to follow the "your not making any sense" angle, others tend to step up to say they understand it then you look a tad stupid.

What gave me away, the traces of semtex on my replica shirt?

No your reference to the Unionist/Protestant population as Loyalists.

If I just refered to All Irish Catholics as IRA what would you assume?

Racism?

 

[Simster]

Simster, go and speak with the protestants in Donegal and ask them if they are unhappy living in a United Ireland - no, their businesses and farms are thriving and sectarian bigotry is a thing of the past. I spend every summer getting pissed with these lads and that's the basis of my confidence.

I don't doubt that, and I do think a united Ireland could be the best solution. What I resent is the arrogance and bigotry of the mindset you seem to be displaying by preferring to blame everything on the British army instead of answering Looney's very simple question which is "how do you force the proddy majority to accept unification when you're blowing them to bits".

 

[Dandyman]

No your reference to the Unionist/Protestant population as Loyalists.

If I just refered to All Irish Catholics as IRA what would you assume?

Racism?

Why does Loyalist mean terrorist in your book ? I always assumed it to mean unionists who attached importance to the symbols of crown, church and flag rather than automatically meaning some UVF/UFF type gangster.

 

[Dr Schnell]

Great first name though...

His middle name is Pugh

 

[looney]

Dandyman

I assume its a way of differentiating between the democratic ones and the nasty types. although some prefer to see no difference.

Things Webmasters really hate usually.................

1 Digging up old threads....check.

2 going off topic in threads...check.

3 starting raging arguements/flame wars in threads...check!


A Hatrick!

 

[alan partridge]

Dandyman

I assume its a way of differentiating between the democratic ones and the nasty types. although some prefer to see no difference.

Things Webmasters really hate usually.................

1 Digging up old threads....check.

2 going off topic in threads...check.

3 starting raging arguements/flame wars in threads...check!


A Hatrick!

start a thread for me to hijack...go on, you know you want me to

 

[Simster]

Things Webmasters really hate usually.................

1 Digging up old threads....check.

2 going off topic in threads...check.

3 starting raging arguements/flame wars in threads...check!

In that case you've got to be a bit smarter. Your last rant regarding someone elses interpretation of loyalism was irrelevant and wrong, but you brought it on yourself by making the bullshit assumption. What IS important though is that London Irish is feebly ignoring your question.

 

[London Irish]

In that case you've got to be a bit smarter. Your last rant regarding someone elses interpretation of loyalism was irrelevant and wrong, but you brought it on yourself by making the bullshit assumption. What IS important though is that London Irish is feebly ignoring your question.

Oh COME ON Simster. Looney has one defined function on NSC, and that is to post rightwing troll comments that are designed for people to laugh at, not debate seriously. Maybe two functions if you want to include AP "owning" him every so often. I'm actually a big fan of what Looney does on here but I never make the mistake of actually thinking he's in anyway SERIOUS. For example, that choice piece of buffoonery about people using the term Loyalism (every broadsheet newspaper and broadcaster in Britain), that's almost as good as his "joke" confusing the Streets and Manic Street Preachers the other day. You can't ENGAGE with stuff like that on any sincere level or you'll get sucked into his zany world as surely as cleaning a toilet with your tongue gets you swallowing shit.

But Simster, as YOU are asking the question about the Loyalist veto, that's another thing entirely.

Actually my views on this were more or less contained in my original posting. The Loyalists are only frightened of a united Ireland because they fear that their privileged access to the best jobs, the best housing, the best services will no longer continue and that the Nationalist community will get equality. Well, the process of ameliorating these inequalities is already under way, if you believe British government bodies like the Fair Employment Agency. Once they are totally removed, then there will be no point to the manufactured six-county statelet as there will be no sectarian inequalities left for it to defend, which was the reason why it was set up to begin with.

All the presence of the British army and other institutions does at the moment is encourage those very worse elements of Loyalism such as Paisley's DUP to not confront the reality that the world has moved on from the days that the Nationalist community could be descriminated against with impunity and their votes rendered ineffective by gerrymandered elections.

But the positive thing is that there does exist a more forward-looking, moderate voice within Unionism that accepts, in these days of globalisation and crossborder institutions such as the EU, that Irishmen on both sides of the border are now united by far more things than divide them, and that's why they've been happy to participate in the host of 32-county bodies that were set up under the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985 and developed by the Good Friday Agreement of 1998.

If the British committed to a withdrawal timetable, it is these moderate voices of Loyalism that would assume leadership of that community and backward-looking reactionaries like Paisley would become marginalised in that process. Most people in the north, including most Protestants, want a quiet life where they can get on with making money and enjoying their life, not the anachronistic war that the Paisleyites would give them.

There would be plenty of confidence-building measures needed to be sure, the Quebec-style federalism you support is obviously a good idea Simster - and that's why it has been advocated by every Nationalist political party of note in the north for YEARS.

It would be good, in my opinion, if a United Ireland happened sooner rather than later. But regardless of timetable, happen it definitely will, all the great modern forces of economics and politics are driving the process in that direction and we will easily see it in our lifetimes. It may well be the European federalist project that finally unites Ireland, for example.

The Republic is now a prosperous country where living standards rival the north. There is no discrimination against any Protestants, my own experience of knowing the Presbytarians of Donegal well, I can vouch personally for that. If it would be anywhere in Ireland, it would be in Donegal - remember, this is only a few miles from the sectarian nightmares of Derry.

As for Nationalists "blowing Protestants to bits", well, the end of IRA violence has been in place for years now and no serious independent analyst of Northern Irish politics ever expects them to go back to such appalling, futile methods again. Sinn Fein now concentrates almost exclusively on the civil rights themes that originally sparked the first wave of Nationalist protests back in the 1960s.

Now this figure of a decline in the Protestant population in the south. What do you think has happened here, Simster, Catholic gangs kidnapping them all and burying them in the peat bogs of Limerick? No. What has happened is that these middle-class Church of Ireland types have simply integrated with the much larger Catholic population by i) either intermarrying or ii) by the much more usual method of loss of religious identity. The decline in the Church of Ireland can be compared fairly usefully with the decline of church-going among their fellow Episcopalians in the Church of England over here.

 

[SussexSpur]

Yep, yep, all good. . . and best off, all of which, plus this new goalie kit http://www.spurs.co.uk/images/cpix/robinson1.jpg (it's a bit green, INNIT), plus my inside SOURCES, adds up to Martin O'Neill as new Spurs manager. . .

Next week, my friends, next week. . .

Sorry for disrupting with trivia, am happy to engage in serious politico/journalistic talk too. If really REALLY coerced.

 

[London Irish]

Never mind about that, for some reason you haven't told us how Mark Yeates got on in his debut

 

[SussexSpur]

Never mind about that, for some reason you haven't told us how Mark Yeates got on in his debut

Very good.
Lovely through ball to set up the first goal by his lookalike and quick-talking-soundalike Keano - a bit hesitant at times but understandably so.

Seen him play several times for the reserves and Albion - a big fan. Hope he gets a few more opportunities next season, whoever the new boss is.

Am guessing he might get one more loan spell somewhere, like Stephen Kelly has had at Swindon and QPR before starting to establish himself, but maybe he'll impress in pre-season like the likes of Jackson and Ricketts did last summer.

All in all. . . thank you for taking decent care of him last autumn!