Peace Ship Attacked

[Juan Albion]

Do people like Greeno get paid for this ?

If you read what he has been saying, you might not agree with him but his approach, imo, has been very considered. I, for one, hope he continues to bring some balance to the conversation. This is a very complex issue, and anyone that thinks they are 100% right on it is guaranteed to be wrong.

 

[Greeno]

If you read what he has been saying, you might not agree with him but his approach, imo, has been very considered. I, for one, hope he continues to bring some balance to the conversation. This is a very complex issue, and anyone that thinks they are 100% right on it is guaranteed to be wrong.

 

[Rowdey]

Greeno, are you able to expand on what your proffesional capacity is in general and regards to your earlier comment of having several meetings with government officials ?

Nothing sinister, i'm just a nosey reader of this thread and have found it quite interesting.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Funny how the Egyptians are keeping their heads down & letting the Israelis get the flack?

Partly because the Egyptians don't kill activists, children, women and journalists.

Partly because the Egyptians have opened their corridor into Gaza as they clearly see the Israelis as in the wrong ..... again.

 

[Greeno]

Greeno, are you able to expand on what your proffesional capacity is in general and regards to your earlier comment of having several meetings with government officials ?

Nothing sinister, i'm just a nosey reader of this thread and have found it quite interesting.

I'm an interested student going out there in the summer and have arranged some meetings with some officials!

 

[Greeno]

Partly because the Egyptians don't kill activists, children, women and journalists.

Partly because the Egyptians have opened their corridor into Gaza as they clearly see the Israelis as in the wrong ..... again.

You're right. The activists kill them:

BBC News - Egyptian soldier killed in clash at Gaza border

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You're right. The activists kill them:

BBC News - Egyptian soldier killed in clash at Gaza border

Given the treatment they get from the Egyptians penning them in from one side and the Israelis using fast jets, missiles, white phosphorus ( illegally ), news black outs so only one side can be told, snipers shooting children and women, illegal settlements, bulldozing Palestinian houses while people are in them, murder in forgien countries and the beating of ship captains bringing aid I can hardly blame them for that - it's quite a measured response.

 

[portslade seagull]

The point I was making with regards to Gilad Shalit are that its no wonder the PUBLIC have moved to the right. I never once attempted to justify any of the innocent loss of life solely on the basis of kidnapped soldier. I suggest you read the posts before you expose your ignorant narrow minded agenda in future.


With regards to the quarter of aid being let in, i completely agree with you that it is appalling and have said as such in previous posts. But nevertheless, I agree with the blockade in principle just not with the manner in which it is being imposed.

So 1 kidnapping makes it ok to kill 100's or even 1000's to justify themselves and that being women and children inclusive

 

[Greeno]

So 1 kidnapping makes it ok to kill 100's or even 1000's to justify themselves and that being women and children inclusive

Please show me where I said that the sole basis of the situation is because of this??

 

[Greeno]

Given the treatment they get from the Egyptians penning them in from one side and the Israelis using fast jets, missiles, white phosphorus ( illegally ), news black outs so only one side can be told, snipers shooting children and women, illegal settlements, bulldozing Palestinian houses while people are in them, murder in forgien countries and the beating of ship captains bringing aid I can hardly blame them for that - it's quite a measured response.

So you are saying that it is Israel's fault that the Palestinians/activists (as far as i'm aware it still isnt clear who fired the deadly shot?) killed an Egyptian soldier?

 

[beorhthelm]

So you are saying that it is Israel's fault that the Palestinians/activists (as far as i'm aware it still isnt clear who fired the deadly shot?) killed an Egyptian soldier?

did you really ask that question? it certainly is a complex situation, but i dont think any Egyptians would get in harms way if there were normal trade routes with Gaza. faced with the threat they do from militants, Israel can behave like a child or an adult: they choose the former.

 

[Greeno]

did you really ask that question? it certainly is a complex situation, but i dont think any Egyptians would get in harms way if there were normal trade routes with Gaza. faced with the threat they do from militants, Israel can behave like a child or an adult: they choose the former.

Certainly no Egyptians will be in the way if there were normal trade links with Gaza and that is something for the Egyptians to sort out too as they too have incredibly tight restrictions. Yet it is still Israel's fault? Somehow the logic doesn't add up!?

If being labelled a child by your accord means that the safety of Israelis is guaranteed, i think behaving like a 'child', whilst i disagree with the reasoning behind it, is a title that Israeli leaders and indeed myself will not lose sleep over.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So you are saying that it is Israel's fault that the Palestinians/activists (as far as i'm aware it still isnt clear who fired the deadly shot?) killed an Egyptian soldier?

Given that Israel is the main suppressor that has somehow persuaded Egypt to help by closing it's border - yes. When Israel starts to act like a proper state rather than a bunch of terrorists, stops murdering innocents and breaking international laws then it can truely claim not to be responsible for these kind of acts but until then they deserve everything they get !

 

[Greeno]

Given that Israel is the main suppressor that has somehow persuaded Egypt to help by closing it's border - yes

The logic behind your reasoning is baffling to say the least. You are now saying that Israel, a country with a population of under 7 million, roughly the population of London, somehow managed to persuade one of the biggest players in the Arab world, with a population of well over 300 million, to keep its doors shut on other Arabs, and yet you do not have any proof of such an allegation.

Are you really worth debating with?

 

[Steve Foster]

Greenock, Westdene Seagull is incapable of debating & has a very warped idea as to life in the middle east. His one & only woman in his life, I suspect an Israeli dumped him in 1964. As a result all Israelis are scounderals & should be evicted from Israel & sent to the North Pole.

 

[beorhthelm]

If being labelled a child by your accord means that the safety of Israelis is guaranteed, i think behaving like a 'child', whilst i disagree with the reasoning behind it, is a title that Israeli leaders and indeed myself will not lose sleep over.

well, the reason for the label is that the state behaves as if it doesnt have to conform to any one elses rules, can do what it likes on its own terms, and not be responsible for the effects on others of its actions. child isnt really fair, more stroppy teenager. with a favoured step parent who indulges them and sees no fault.

and the last time i checked, their actions where not actually guaranteeing the safety of anyone. nevermind about next rocket attack rather than actually resolving the conflict, you keep sleeping.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Do people like Greeno get paid for this ?

There is previous on NSC. There was a Israeli propogandist on NSC a couple of years back who it turned out was one of an army of such propogandists who's job was to go on to threads such as these in times of anti-Israeli outrage and state Israel's case with a suspiciously full set of facts and figures at his disposal. Wasn't exactly paid for it, but turned out to be a student in a government-sponsored sweatshop in Tel Aviv who'd posted almost identical stuff on many websites with large numbers of postings at times such as these. Think he lasted about three days before he got found out and banned. Just saying, like

 

[Greeno]

well, the reason for the label is that the state behaves as if it doesnt have to conform to any one elses rules, can do what it likes on its own terms, and not be responsible for the effects on others of its actions. child isnt really fair, more stroppy teenager. with a favoured step parent who indulges them and sees no fault.

and the last time i checked, their actions where not actually guaranteeing the safety of anyone. nevermind about next rocket attack rather than actually resolving the conflict, you keep sleeping.

You know what, I happen to agree with you. I think the unconditional support of the USA is a major issue, however, recently things have been beginning to change. When Obama snubbed Netanyahu the other month, many Israelis were genuinely shocked.

However, we must ask ourselves who are we to tell Israel how to behave? Israel lives in a tough neighbourhood and its civillians face challenges we in the West who sit and talk about this on internet forums cannot even begin to understand. Have you ever had to spend your summer living underground in a bomb shelter?

Of course, the counter to that is 'have you ever had a drone flying over you while you sleep' and that too is an incredibly disturbing thought yet is also a reality for many. The fact is that the minute Hamas renounces violence there will be no drones flying overhead at night...just ask those living in the West Bank when the last time an airstrike was launched on them. There is no denying the correlation that a decrease in terror/rocket attacks = a considerable decrease in the suffering of Palestinians. And until that renunciation of violence comes about, Palestinians will continue to suffer and Israel will continue to be forced to make difficult decisions and will continue to get some of these decisions wrong.

The reality is, the blockade has significantly protected the safety of Israelis. Imagine if the borders and the seas were opened up completely the sort of weapons that would be coming in to Gaza? There will be more instances like this BBC News - Israelis 'seize Iran arms ship' and judging by the past, Hamas has shown that it is not afraid to terrorise Israeli civillians at the expense of the people it was 'democratically elected' to protect. That is a situation that no democracy who has a duty to protect its citizens can live with. And I fully understand and support that.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

There is previous on NSC. There was a Israeli propogandist on NSC a couple of years back who it turned out was one of an army of such propogandists who's job was to go on to threads such as these in times of anti-Israeli outrage and state Israel's case with a suspiciously full set of facts and figures at his disposal. Wasn't exactly paid for it, but turned out to be a student in a government-sponsored sweatshop in Tel Aviv who'd posted almost identical stuff on many websites with large numbers of postings at times such as these. Think he lasted about three days before he got found out and banned. Just saying, like

A world without America - North Stand Chat

BUBA - did he influence anyone to his point of view? - North Stand Chat

 

[Greeno]

There is previous on NSC. There was a Israeli propogandist on NSC a couple of years back who it turned out was one of an army of such propogandists who's job was to go on to threads such as these in times of anti-Israeli outrage and state Israel's case with a suspiciously full set of facts and figures at his disposal. Wasn't exactly paid for it, but turned out to be a student in a government-sponsored sweatshop in Tel Aviv who'd posted almost identical stuff on many websites with large numbers of postings at times such as these. Think he lasted about three days before he got found out and banned. Just saying, like

Was that ever proved btw?