Peace Ship Attacked

[dazzalewis1968]

Which rather makes Bushy's point for him.

Israel has a right to exist under UN Resolution 181. It does not have the right to colonise the West Bank and Gaza or to keep the Palestinians in a state of permanent seige and occupation.

As an aside, Arab Palestinians have been in modern Israel/Palestine since the Arab invasion in 638. Non-Arabs (be they Jews, Christians, Muslims, Druze or others) predate that. The Jewish population in the 1920's was around 11%.

i was joking BTW !

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

One more note I have a buddy in Israel who is a real life spooks.
and they foil attacks on Israel every day so lets not get away from the eveil of Hamas.

Interesting. I spent a couple of years working with them in Israel and also training them in this country. I know for a fact that the "daily prevention of attacks" is not that at all - they spin it up to keep the terror factor high around the borders and also to ensure that they present an image of being under constant bombardment. We had many discussions with them relating to this manipulation of the facts, and they could not believe that we did not do the same with the IRA - it guarantees funding for the organisations that are put in place to combat this and generates an "anti" feeling for the opposition. We are getting that was now with the "Islamic Threat" - lots of claimed prevention but "nothing we can tell you about because it is so secret". I know that there are many agents out there who do a great deal of preventative work, but I also know there are a great many 1/2/3 star officers who like to spin a good story at parties...

Hamas are not the tooth fairy, don't get me wrong, but the line between terrorists and freedom fighters is a fine one - and the IDF and the Israeli intelligence forces blur it on a regular basis. If they wanted this operation to be a smooth one, then it would have been carried out with full TV presence in daylight - not in a night time insertion with the state TV crews there.

 

[dazzalewis1968]

Interesting. I spent a couple of years working with them in Israel and also training them in this country. I know for a fact that the "daily prevention of attacks" is not that at all - they spin it up to keep the terror factor high around the borders and also to ensure that they present an image of being under constant bombardment. We had many discussions with them relating to this manipulation of the facts, and they could not believe that we did not do the same with the IRA - it guarantees funding for the organisations that are put in place to combat this and generates an "anti" feeling for the opposition. We are getting that was now with the "Islamic Threat" - lots of claimed prevention but "nothing we can tell you about because it is so secret". I know that there are many agents out there who do a great deal of preventative work, but I also know there are a great many 1/2/3 star officers who like to spin a good story at parties...

Hamas are not the tooth fairy, don't get me wrong, but the line between terrorists and freedom fighters is a fine one - and the IDF and the Israeli intelligence forces blur it on a regular basis. If they wanted this operation to be a smooth one, then it would have been carried out with full TV presence in daylight - not in a night time insertion with the state TV crews there.

I see we have MR MI5 here ! welcome james Bond

 

[daveinprague]

I see we have a Mr terrorist state apologist/propagandist here! Welcome Rambo.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

I see we have MR MI5 here ! welcome james Bond

Not at all. I just have probably more experience in these matters than you if you were a hogrim with Shin Bet pretentions, which I think is probably proven over more than a few years on here.

 

[User removed 4]

And don't forget the invention of concentration camps.

You forgot to add the potato famine as well, you tiresome self loathing cock.

 

[Poyet Laureate]

Sure, they were there under a league of nations mandate (the predecessor to the UN)which called for them to allow a government to emerge which reflected the wishes of the population(90% arab at the time), preserve the pattern of land ownership and to avoid altering the population ratios, anything else i can help with ?

But at the time of the hangings, the League of Nations no longer existed and the commission that had established the Mandate had been dissolved. And whichever way you try to spin it, it was still an occupying force in a territory that wasn't theirs.

It is also true that by the time of the executions, the British had started a policy of execution, which only inflamed the Jewish people further. Whenever the British sentenced someone to death, militant Jews kidnapped some Brits and threatened to hang them if their own people were hanged. This successfully prevented a number of executions. But when the British sentenced more to death, the two soldiers were kidnapped and the usual threat of "you kill ours and we'll kill yours" was made. The British executed their prisoners, so the Jewish militants executed theirs. As they saw themselves fighting an occupying force, I am not totally surprised by this, even if I condemn it.

 

[Poyet Laureate]

You forgot to add the potato famine as well, you tiresome self loathing cock.

I guess you aren't man enough to admit that Britain doesn't exactly have a spotless past. Hooray for the UK, the only country in history to get everything right.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Whether or not you agree with the intricacies of the blockade i.e. what should go in and shouldn't is another matter and I think we will both agree with more than we disagree about such an issue.

Its not though is it. Its completely central to the matter.

If I was on a boat taking aid in to my family and friends and a soldier came to stop me I'd probably lay into him with a baseball bat. Israel has a right to defend itself against terrorists, but a right to blockade part of its country and deliberately keep some of its citizens in poverty - give me a break! We invade or chuck sanctions on every other country that does that

 

[Greeno]

Where to start ? The withdrawl from Gaza was because it has little value in relation to the effort required to occupy it. Settlements continue to be built illegally in the West Bank and in Arab Jerusalem and the sincerity of any claimed offer to withdraw is massively undermined by this.

The problem IMO is that Israel has moved more and more to the right over the years due both to the Orthodox and Russian and US Immigrants. This makes it more likely that Israel is on the path to self-destruction rather than lasting peace and genuine security.

Whilst I admit the orthodox and Russian and US immigrants could be argued to play a role, would you not agree that 10,000 rockets fired over the space of 8 years with little direct action taken by the government until last year, over 1000 killed by suicide bomb attacks, and the fact that there has been very very little outcry around the world about the kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit who has not had any access to the red cross, to the UN or any contact with his family for 4 years , is enough to make any country lean towards the right!!

Its also worth noting that the peace agreement with Egypt and the withdrawal from the Sinai was done by a right wing government as was the disengagement from Gaza.

 

[Greeno]

Its not though is it. Its completely central to the matter.

If I was on a boat taking aid in to my family and friends and a soldier came to stop me I'd probably lay into him with a baseball bat. Israel has a right to defend itself against terrorists, but a right to blockade part of its country and deliberately keep some of its citizens in poverty - give me a break! We invade or chuck sanctions on every other country that does that

The fact is that Israel said that the aid would go to the Palestinians and in fact it was all delivered yesterday. Therefore you would have no right whatsoever to hurt the soldier when he has no intention whatsoever to hurt you. Just look at what happened on all the other ships. They didnt hurt the soldiers, the soldiers didnt hurt them.

 

[Greeno]

Interesting. I spent a couple of years working with them in Israel and also training them in this country. I know for a fact that the "daily prevention of attacks" is not that at all - they spin it up to keep the terror factor high around the borders and also to ensure that they present an image of being under constant bombardment. We had many discussions with them relating to this manipulation of the facts, and they could not believe that we did not do the same with the IRA - it guarantees funding for the organisations that are put in place to combat this and generates an "anti" feeling for the opposition. We are getting that was now with the "Islamic Threat" - lots of claimed prevention but "nothing we can tell you about because it is so secret". I know that there are many agents out there who do a great deal of preventative work, but I also know there are a great many 1/2/3 star officers who like to spin a good story at parties...

Hamas are not the tooth fairy, don't get me wrong, but the line between terrorists and freedom fighters is a fine one - and the IDF and the Israeli intelligence forces blur it on a regular basis. If they wanted this operation to be a smooth one, then it would have been carried out with full TV presence in daylight - not in a night time insertion with the state TV crews there.

So let me get this straight...what you are basically saying is that if Israel were to get rid of every check point tomorrow that there would be no suicide bomb attacks, despite the constant incitement in the palestinian media and the bile that is taught in the national curriculums and the fact that there is currently a party who is a renowned terrorist organisation who is sworn on the destruction of the state of israel in charge of gaza, and so israeli children on their way to school would be over-reacting if they fear getting onto a bus to go to school of having their heads blown off like their elder brothers/sisters?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

and the fact that there has been very very little outcry around the world about the kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit who has not had any access to the red cross, to the UN or any contact with his family for 4 years , is enough to make any country lean towards the right!!

Absolute bollocks. Didn't see the British government or Irish government murdering children and breaking international law when Terry Waite and John Mcarthy were held without any access to the red cross, the UN or their families.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The fact is that Israel said that the aid would go to the Palestinians and in fact it was all delivered yesterday. Therefore you would have no right whatsoever to hurt the soldier when he has no intention whatsoever to hurt you. Just look at what happened on all the other ships. They didnt hurt the soldiers, the soldiers didnt hurt them.

Another fact is that Israel only lets in a quarter of the aid required.

 

[Greeno]

Another fact is that Israel only lets in a quarter of the aid required.

The point I was making with regards to Gilad Shalit are that its no wonder the PUBLIC have moved to the right. I never once attempted to justify any of the innocent loss of life solely on the basis of kidnapped soldier. I suggest you read the posts before you expose your ignorant narrow minded agenda in future.


With regards to the quarter of aid being let in, i completely agree with you that it is appalling and have said as such in previous posts. But nevertheless, I agree with the blockade in principle just not with the manner in which it is being imposed.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

This is the problem in a nutshell, born in brighton, yet was a member of the IDF, explain to me what you think gives you more rights to land than someone whose family has probably been there for thousands of years ?

Surely you can't miss the hypocrisy of your statement when your views are the complete opposite when it comes to Northern Ireland.

One rule for one, one rule for another?

 

[Juan Albion]

So the next ship is now heading for Gaza. It will be interesting to see what happens this time.

 

[Steve Foster]

The point I was making with regards to Gilad Shalit are that its no wonder the PUBLIC have moved to the right. I never once attempted to justify any of the innocent loss of life solely on the basis of kidnapped soldier. I suggest you read the posts before you expose your ignorant narrow minded agenda in future.


With regards to the quarter of aid being let in, i completely agree with you that it is appalling and have said as such in previous posts. But nevertheless, I agree with the blockade in principle just not with the manner in which it is being imposed.

Israel lets in aid by land as the goods have to be acutely checked as components to make rockets firing into Israel are naturally not tolerated.
Let us not forget that Egypt has a crossing with Gaza too, where goods can come in or out as well.

Funny how the Egyptians are keeping their heads down & letting the Israelis get the flack?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Do people like Greeno get paid for this ?

 

[Greeno]

Do people like Greeno get paid for this ?

I wish i could get paid for airing my opinions.