Pay for your NHS

[Westdene Seagull]

It sounds a bit too obvious, but that's because it is, but legalising and taxing soft drugs such as cannabis would pay a large chunk of the NHS bill.

And worryingly, the Americans who are usually the last to pick up a good idea and ahead of us - Colorado seems to have got it right. Sadly our politicians are too set in their ways to accept a tax income from cannabis.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Only additional charging I'd like to see in the NHS is for people who don't turn up for appointments. Costs the NHS a fortune.

'Figures have suggested that more than twelve million GP appointments are missed each year in the UK, costing in excess of £162 million per year. A further 6.9 million outpatient hospital appointments are missed each year in the UK, costing an average of £108 per appointment in 2012/13.' (Source: NHS England)

I'll happily accept being charged for a missed appointment if I can charge for the appointments I've had cancelled at the last minute or the three hour delays for seeing me when I've been on time for an appointment.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

You couldn't make this up, or could you
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/467818/Ethiopian-farmer-sues-UK-over-our-foreign-aid-handouts

Yes I know it's the Express, and I know the money with give in aid is probably nothing compared to what we need to spend on the NHS, but all these things add up don't they. Only in this country does this sort of thing happen, absolutely crazy.

 

[edna krabappel]

You know perfectly well Edna what I mean. Look at the stats regarding Friday & Saturday nights with the amount of drunks that fill A&E.

I do But A&E deal with alcohol related issues every single day. Probably not the sort of pub fight detritus you're thinking of, but people with long term abuse problems.

I'm just- playing a little devil's advocate here I guess- asking where you'd draw the line as to personal responsibility for medical conditions?

 

[Superphil]

Only additional charging I'd like to see in the NHS is for people who don't turn up for appointments. Costs the NHS a fortune.

'Figures have suggested that more than twelve million GP appointments are missed each year in the UK, costing in excess of £162 million per year. A further 6.9 million outpatient hospital appointments are missed each year in the UK, costing an average of £108 per appointment in 2012/13.' (Source: NHS England)

I agree in principal with your point, but I do have to ask, how exactly does it 'cost' anything for a missed appointment? The doctor, or nurse will be there at the surgery regardless, he or she will be being paid whether a patient turns up or not, the cost of a doctor or nurse is a fixed overhead isn't it? It sounds good for those reporting it to say it 'costs' money when someone misses an appointment, but I can't quite see how it does.

 

[father_and_son]

I agree in principal with your point, but I do have to ask, how exactly does it 'cost' anything for a missed appointment? The doctor, or nurse will be there at the surgery regardless, he or she will be being paid whether a patient turns up or not, the cost of a doctor or nurse is a fixed overhead isn't it? It sounds good for those reporting it to say it 'costs' money when someone misses an appointment, but I can't quite see how it does.

Its an opportunity cost... the doc/nurse could be doing something else...seeing someone else...etc. If all the lost appointment time could be used to its maximum benefit then, in simplistic terms, that means one less doctor/nurse required (or however many it equates to) and so there is a real cost associated with wasting time. Staff costs are only considered fixed while the workload remains constant. Increase or decrease the work and eventually you need more/less people.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Dont forget the smokers.
And what about rock climbers who get hurt?Thats self inflicted.
Drug users should pay too.
Anyone that gets a STD should pay.
People that get hurt playing sports......no need for it.....stay indoors.......they should pay too.
Cyclists that get run over should pay......they could take the bus instead.

anyone else?

All of which are known as "excesses" in the world of insurance, which is really what we are talking about. Ordinary Joes pay zero, but those with "self inflicted" ailments pay a premium.
If we want an NHS that can cope with all the new stuff they keep discovering, with a greater and ageing population, then they are going to have to increase revenue somehow. It's just a matter of how.

 

[father_and_son]

All of which are known as "excesses" in the world of insurance, which is really what we are talking about. Ordinary Joes pay zero, but those with "self inflicted" ailments pay a premium.
If we want an NHS that can cope with all the new stuff they keep discovering, with a greater and ageing population, then they are going to have to increase revenue somehow. It's just a matter of how.

Technically, the list would represent "Contributory Negligence" rather than an Excess.

But I'm being pedantic. Following the insurance model there are 3 things you could do...

Contributory Negligence
You put yourself in this position because you didn't take reasonable precaution to avoid being ill, therefore you have to pay, say, half the bill. Be in a car without a seatbelt and make a claim and your payout will be reduced by a percentage amount because you are a d*ck.

Excess
You have to pay the first £X towards your treatment (possibly varying by the treatment). So, for example, breaking your leg means that you'll have to pay £20 towards the NHS costs, but they will pick up the rest. (Prescription charges work this way if you aren't entitled to free ones)

Franchise
Similar to an excess but usually much higher and if costs go over the threshold the insurer pays all of it. So, if you are ill/injured you have to pay costs if they are less than, say, £200. Anything which costs over £200 would be covered in full by the NHS.


I think that most agree that the Excess model is flawed for healthcare - you cannot have a situation where people cannot get treatment because they cannot afford to pay the excess. However, a combination of the first and third models would be the best way forward IMO. Turn up at A&E because you feel a bit off colour and you are presented with the bill. If there really is something wrong with you that results in treatment other than "go home", "see your GP" or "sleep it off" then its free. Make people responsible for their own actions.

 

[drew]

Its a former labour health minister actually.

An un elected minister there due to his title given due to his work in the civil service rather than real life! Also, he is a paid advisor to British Healthcare Group who, according to Wiki, are the largest UK private hospital group.

As for Reform, they claim to be an independent think tank but just have a look at who they are and the type that fund them and then tell me they don't have a vested interest in a privatised health service!

http://www.keepournhspublic.com/pdf/Reform.pdf

 

[GreersElbow]

Unfortunately a lot of people in this country wouldn't be able to afford it. The government are doing everything they can to sway the public into thinking that privatisation of the NHS is a good idea. The NHS is the most important service in the country, bar none, and there are other ways we can save it which are far more reasonable than this ridiculous "subscription fee" idea.

Are they? Where has anyone in the government or even left side of the House even said privatisation is best for the nation?

A move towards a Singaporean model wouldn't go a miss though.

Trident or NHS, NHS or Trident .... hmmm .... difficult one !

Scrap Trident and use the savings on the NHS and there would be no need for some ridiculous "subscription" fee.

Wait, we pay an annual fee for trident?!

 

[GreersElbow]

Quite a naive question considering it would be political suicide to suggest such a thing, and rightly so.

However when you look at how they are crippling the NHS with competition law and forcing it to use the private sector, despite it not being any cheaper, it's clear what their intentions are. Criticisms (essentially propaganda) of the NHS are almost a daily occurrence in certain media outlets, it's clear that the government is gearing the NHS towards privatisation.

A naive question, huh? You've done well to completely avoid though, haven't you?

Would that mean the public's completely blind and ignorant to the conspiracy of the inevitable privatisation? Of course! You know, handing control further down the line and loosening the bureaucracy of centralised government does that!

But we all know the Labour government got the ball rolling on out-sourcing. Which is what's happening, the prinicpal concept of "Universal coverage" and "Free at the point of delivery" remain. It's not like the old granny down the road's being sent a bill every month.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Wait, we pay an annual fee for trident?!

I hate to break it to you but on top of the £34bn renewal cost there are annual running costs of £2bn - so yes - we "pay" an annual fee.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of tax avoiders etc if it keeps the NHS afloat, protecting services and jobs, £10 a month isnt a lot to ask is it?

Only additional charging I'd like to see in the NHS is for people who don't turn up for appointments. Costs the NHS a fortune.

'Figures have suggested that more than twelve million GP appointments are missed each year in the UK, costing in excess of £162 million per year. A further 6.9 million outpatient hospital appointments are missed each year in the UK, costing an average of £108 per appointment in 2012/13.' (Source: NHS England)

Absolutely correct on both counts.

Missed appointments should be charged at £30 at least. People doing this are absolute nuisance and show a complete disrespect to others.

 

[Creaky]

Quite a naive question considering it would be political suicide to suggest such a thing, and rightly so.

However when you look at how they are crippling the NHS with competition law and forcing it to use the private sector, despite it not being any cheaper, it's clear what their intentions are. Criticisms (essentially propaganda) of the NHS are almost a daily occurrence in certain media outlets, it's clear that the government is gearing the NHS towards privatisation.

Ever since its inception the most commonly used part of the NHS has been provided by the private sector and I have not seen any suggestion to change this nor much criticism of the way it works linked directly to the fact that it is provided by private individuals - I am of course talking about the GP service.

If GPs can provide a cost effective solution why can't other services be provided by the private sector in an equally efficient way?

 

[janee]

An un elected minister there due to his title given due to his work in the civil service rather than real life! Also, he is a paid advisor to British Healthcare Group who, according to Wiki, are the largest UK private hospital group.

As for Reform, they claim to be an independent think tank but just have a look at who they are and the type that fund them and then tell me they don't have a vested interest in a privatised health service!

http://www.keepournhspublic.com/pdf/Reform.pdf

This