Panorama

[Lord Bracknell]

As for bouncers ...

Smart Mart's original question - are things worse than they were 20 years ago? - might be looked at in the context of the growth of the bouncer.

Twenty years ago, no pubs had bouncers. Drunks generally fell over and went home.

These days, city centre pubs do have bouncers. Drunks now fall over and get into fights.

Is there a connection?

 

[BUTTERBALL]

I won't be going to Nottingham for a night out!!

The way to deal with those who go too far is simple. If they are admitted to A&E for self-inflicted alcohol abuse, then fine them £50 for the resources that we have to pay for through taxes.

There should also be fast-track court appearances for violent alcohol related crimes with large fines.

The point is, if the deterrents were there, people would think twice regardless of how much they have drunk.

 

[Hunting 784561]

As for bouncers ...

Smart Mart's original question - are things worse than they were 20 years ago? - might be looked at in the context of the growth of the bouncer.

Twenty years ago, no pubs had bouncers. Drunks generally fell over and went home.

These days, city centre pubs do have bouncers. Drunks now fall over and get into fights.

Is there a connection?

Most probably Lord B

I think there are a lot more security measures needed now, like bouncers and CCTV systems, for these new places to get their licences in the first place.

I think the real underlying question is why the 'English' get so yobbish after a few drinks, which just doesnt happen to the same degree in other similar booze loving northern European countries,

 

[Lammy]

I won't be going to Nottingham for a night out!!

The way to deal with those who go too far is simple. If they are admitted to A&E for self-inflicted alcohol abuse, then fine them £50 for the resources that we have to pay for through taxes.

There should also be fast-track court appearances for violent alcohol related crimes with large fines.

The point is, if the deterrents were there, people would think twice regardless of how much they have drunk.

I lived in Nottingham for a year in 99. I was no worse than any other city I've been to. In fact I though it was rather tame compared to Liverpool!! The way panorama depicted it last night made Irag seem like an escape from it all! Total rubbish. I used to like Panorama but they do seem to come up with the most biast reporting I've ever seen!!

The drinking culture in this country is a problem but it's nowhere near the level that Panorama was depicting last night! I'm sure if they covered Brighton then they'd say it was a war zone that is totally out of control! Also Nottingham I believe does have the most bars per square mile in Britain so they've already taken the most extream case!!!

btw I fully symathise with the bloke that punched the wing mirror of a cab door! More night buses please and public toilets! I HATE taxis!

 

[CHAPPERS]

I won't be going to Nottingham for a night out!!

.

Nottingham is like West Street but bigger at times, normally though they have 3 police vans patrolling the main square at the weekends. It has some brilliant bars but can be ruined by the tossers that tend to converge on the town on fridays.

 

[zefarelly]

there is definitely a problem with marketing alco-junk and dangerously strong cocktails . . .as has already been said, it was less widespread 20-30 years ago because theres a limit to how much beer one can drink.

I also think the licensing laws are stupid . . . .not least because with 11 o'clock closing your turfing everybody on to the streets at the same time . . . .and all pisht because they've been racing it down ! stupidity

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The drinks industry pays £41 Billion in tax a year. How is this money reinvested to provide drinkiers with public sevices and transport?

It's not the drinks industry that pays the tax. It's the consumers of alcohol that pay tax.

Many alcohol consumers no longer use city centre drinking establishments in the evenings. (That's another change from twenty years ago).

I would guess that a high priority for these alcohol consumers would be for the authorities to restore tranquility to those places where it has disappeared.

The poor bloke from the drink industry was being spoken to like a naughty school boy.

Come on! The guy admitted that the industry had been pushing the licensing authorities around. He could hardly believe his luck when they managed to steamroller through the application for yet another massive drinking establishment in Nottingham. He said they celebrated this like it was Nottingham Forest winning the Champions League!

 

[Northstander]

there is definitely a problem with marketing alco-junk and dangerously strong cocktails . . .as has already been said, it was less widespread 20-30 years ago because theres a limit to how much beer one can drink.

I also think the licensing laws are stupid . . . .not least because with 11 o'clock closing your turfing everybody on to the streets at the same time . . . .and all pisht because they've been racing it down ! stupidity

this will never change, it is the British Culture. If the gov. brings 24 hr licencing (towns and not local boozers)....(L/Lords choice in locals if they do or not), it will just get worse on weekends!!


IMHO, and when I have kids I will educate em properly how to drink sensibly!! THIS is the answer...

I know someone who allowed their kids to drink at home, the reason being was when they turned 18 or whatever it wasn't a novelty to go out and get blasted!!

 

[Pavilionaire]

20 or 30 years ago lads would go out for a bevvie on a Friday, and a bit of football violence on a Saturday.

Now, thanks to all-seater stadia and CCTV in grounds, the violence has been relocated back to the high street pub!

Seriously, the problem is now getting out of hand because of the modern-day lad/ladette culture where it is perfectly acceptable / desirable / normal to get shitfaced all weekend.

In marketing terms all men seem to be portrayed as dumb animals whose only motivation is food, beer and football and all woman as foxy, sassy, smart and streetwise. Both sexes seem content to act out this simplistic view that embraces drink as essential to creating both characters.

 

[Lammy]

It's not the drinks industry that pays the tax. It's the consumers of alcohol that pay tax.

Not sure what your point is here. It is the consumer that pays the tax and it is the consumer that is causing the problem shall we ignore the industry bit in the middle? The industry is pushing and selling a product that generates a huge amount of tax, easily enough to supply more public toilets, buses, police etc...

He was being asked if the drinks industry should pay for more policing. He quite rightly pointed out that the drinks industry already generates a huge amount of tax. If they were asked to pay more then that cost again would be past onto the consumer. What's the difference. The government is already getting a LOT of money it is up to them to use it better. A bit like road tax actually being spent on the roads. Now THAT would be nice. If you drink more you pay more tax for more poilice. If you use the roads more then you pay more for their up keep. It's a fair system. The government simply don't choose to imploy it as it would mean lowering tax on beer and uping income tax.

Many alcohol consumers no longer use city centre drinking establishments in the evenings. (That's another change from twenty years ago).

I would guess that a high priority for these alcohol consumers would be for the authorities to restore tranquility to those places where it has disappeared.

So now youre saying the problem is away from the city centre? Again I'm not sure what point you are making here?

Come on! The guy admitted that the industry had been pushing the licensing authorities around. He could hardly believe his luck when they managed to steamroller through the application for yet another massive drinking establishment in Nottingham. He said they celebrated this like it was Nottingham Forest winning the Champions League!

We're talking about two different people here. You are talking about a lawyer. They are all scum (did you see that twat laughing with that drink driver that got off?). The chap I was talking about was a rep from the beer and liquor authority (or something like that). He was talked over, spoken down to and generally never given the chance to voice their policies. Why wasn't the police asked what is being done with the huge amount of cash generated in tax by all these drinkers? Should the police lobby the government for more funds?

No. Because the program set out from the start was to lay the blame entirely at the feet of the drinks industry.

Now I'm not saying the drinks industry don't have a lot to answer for and a lot they could be doing better. But Panorama were blinkered to all the other issues involved. A lot of good and obvious points have been made on this thread. But apparently the problem is simply too many bars. right.

 

[mona]

I'm not saying that binge drinking is exclusively an English issue. I was simply pointing out that the programme was about binge drinking in England.

Scottish licensing laws (and the Scottish licensing system) are different. The drinks industry (and the government) seem to be claiming that late night violence in English city centres will reduce if something like the Scottish deregulation is adopted. Panorama accepted that there was less of a problem in Scottish cities, but alleged that the government were suppressing some of the counter-evidence from other countries that have deregulated licensing hours. Wales never got a mention.

My experiences in Dundee and Aberdeen would indicate that the Panorama journalists don't know much about Scotland. Hard drinking is an integral part of Scottish and Irish culture......Discuss

 

[Mr Popkins]

i blame stella and 1664 l . now im a seasoned drinker, but stick to what some people call piss, i.e ,carling, fosters, carlsberg etc. i can quite easy drink 10-15 pints and altough pissed ,be pretty much in contol of myself and remember most things in the morning. now Stella is a differnt story 5 pints and im all over the show. young kiddies will drink stella even if they prefer the weaker lagers as they do not want to be seen as wimps in front of their mates.

in my opinion if pubs only served beer with alchol content of no more than 4% crime would go down by 25%

 

[Dave the OAP]

Looking at it from another old farts point of view, I think this is a general sympton of our overall state of the country.

Yes, people have more disposable income ( most of it on credit) and theerfore more money to spend on alchohol. What I find very strange is the behaviour of women in all of this. In my day ( late 70's early 80's) when we went out, if you saw a "hen night", you didn't get the overly aggressive female that you tend to do now. Yes ok, you had silly peopel staggering around, but not the foul mouthed individuals you get in Brighton some evenings.

I do actually agree with Pavillionaare with this.

I do know one thing though...we very rarely go into Brighton on a night for a meal or to go to a club. We tend to head for Hove where there are restaurants in which there are no loud mouth pissed youths and you can have a good time without worrying about what you are going to witness when you get outside.

It does make me laugh when people have a go at the french, yet, I have been in most cities in France and never witnessed hoards of pissed up youths shouting/swearing and just itching for a fight

Just what happened in Rome after the fall of the Empire I am told

 

[looney]

A boring old git writes ...


Panorama was right to blame the drinks industry, of course. But I don't think they quite got the reason right.

What I don't understand is why young people are so susceptible to the marketing tricks. Whatever happened to the critical consumerism that defined so much of what I used to drink before I fell over?

God, I'm a boring old fart. Sorry.

Panorama was wrong to blame the drinks industry, in fact it blamed both which is still wrong, but typical of a lefty mindset.


Yea those companies push the sweet shitty stuff but what do you expect them to do? Promote abstainance?

There is rarely a thing called a "free market". Most markets need designing and regulating properly, this is an example of Government failure. As are out of town supermarkets as they get the final nod from the planning authority.

Also by blaming both panorama blurs the lines of responsability and as the Taylor report showed if you do that things tend to go pear shaped.

God, I'm a boring old fart. Sorry

Yes I am a god, yes you are a bof and apology accepted.

 

[Gwylan]

I think Dave the G has made a good point here. When I was young, the pubs contained a fair proportion of, shall we say, older people. Now pubs in the city centres are full of 20-somethings and the atmosphere has changed for the worse.

I've never seen gangs of pissed-up youths behaving obnoxiously in any other country ... apart from the Brits abroad that is.

 

[looney]

I've never seen gangs of pissed-up youths behaving obnoxiously in any other country ... apart from the Brits abroad that is.

This is what happens if you try to graft part of one culture on to another, lefties love it and call it "Multi-culturalism" always looking at foreigners because they lack any knowledge, respect or understanding of their own culture.

Froggy all day drinking+ UK binging tradition= All day binge drinking.

 

[Simster]

Yes looney but the binge drinking culture presumably stems from 11 o clock closing times and the shut down of public transport before the morning?

Change this, and over a number of years I think we'd see an improvement in this country

 

[looney]

Yes looney but the binge drinking culture presumably stems from 11 o clock closing times and the shut down of public transport before the morning?

Change this, and over a number of years I think we'd see an improvement in this country

Nope it is the culture not the turning out time. ie

Happy hour
Drinking games
Yard of ale

all 3 predate the boom in bars which have refined this with marketing techniques, 2 for 1 etc.

Im old enough to remember early closing and people stacking up drinks was rare, even then bying one or two isn't going to get you in the state some of these are in.

Lets face it, this generation is just crap at handling their booze, lightweights.

 

[Hunting 784561]

Panorama was wrong to blame the drinks industry, in fact it blamed both which is still wrong, but typical of a lefty mindset.

Im sure Panorama showed a programme claiming credit card debt was getting out of control because anybody and everybody could get a credit card, and the country was going to hell in a handcart as a result...

Guess what....Mori undertake a massive interview of 45,000 credit card holders and it turns out the total debt outstanding had been calculated incorrectly, in fact 50% of all credit card holders pay their balance off, in full, every month, and that only 5% were actually above their credit limit.


Crap bbc journalism

 

[looney]

Watching the BBC arseholes thursday should be fun. I'll have a BBC bias thread up here friday if I'm not working.