Palace fans fury

[edna krabappel]

Then why not look at the actual first thing in the chain which was Cantona hacking down Richard Shaw because Shaw had had him in his pocket all game?

So, essentially, Richard Shaw is to blame for all this?

Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[COYP]

I'm really not getting into a tantrum on this Springal. Bozza asked a question I responded with a logical reply. I think if the situation was reversed and some scumbag Man United fan had stabbed and then thrown a breezeblock at a Brighton fans head knocking him down in front of the coach trying to get away then you would all feel very strongly about it.

I'm asking that people like Edna have a little decorum over this and not try and turn the tragic murder of a football fan into something to try and pointscore against Palace about.

 

[edna krabappel]

I've read the detail on this many times, but what I've never seen explained is if people are going to trace the tragic death of Paul Nixon back, why do they always stop at Cantona's lunge into the crowd? Why do they not take the logical next step and actually blame Matthew Simmons for his foul-mouthed tirade that instigated the whole thing? The only reason I can think of is that Palace don't want to blame one of their own (even if he really wasn't one of their own). I'd be grateful if someone could explain to me why the first event in the chain that some say lead to the death of Paul Nixon is Cantona's lunge, and not what provoked Cantona into that lunge.

Don't be daft, Bozza: as we all know from the court case, what Matthew Simmonds actually said to Cantona was

"Off! Off! Off! It's an early bath for you, Mr Cantona!".



So not to blame at all. Entirely Cantona's fault.

 

[edna krabappel]

I'm really not getting into a tantrum on this Springal. Bozza asked a question I responded with a logical reply. I think if the situation was reversed and some scumbag Man United fan had stabbed and then thrown a breezeblock at a Brighton fans head knocking him down in front of the coach trying to get away then you would all feel very strongly about it.

I'm asking that people like Edna have a little decorum over this and not try and turn the tragic murder of a football fan into something to try and pointscore against Palace about.

This is the point I'm trying to make though.

"Some scumbag Man United fan" is the only person responsible for someone losing his life. That's it. You can't take it to the nth degree and cite the actions of a footballer who lost his rag as a contributory factor. Thousands of people witnessed the Cantona incident. They didn't all go and act like thugs because of it. It's an entirely separate issue.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

This is the point I'm trying to make though.

"Some scumbag Man United fan" is the only person responsible for someone losing his life. That's it. You can't take it to the nth degree and cite the actions of a footballer who lost his rag as a contributory factor. Thousands of people witnessed the Cantona incident. They didn't all go and act like thugs because of it. It's an entirely separate issue.

Yep - that.

The two incidents are entirely unconnected. Lots of things over the decades cause animosity between various clubs. If one dick from one attacks a fan from another at some point in the future, its because he's a dick, pure and simple.

 

[Bozza]

Then why not look at the actual first thing in the chain which was Cantona hacking down Richard Shaw because Shaw had had him in his pocket all game?

Ferguson for buying and then picking Cantona?

I want to make it clear, in case it needs saying, that the last thing I'm doing is trivialising the death of Paul Nixon. Regardless of what colours we wear, we all go to football to have a good time. To meet up with friends, maybe to have a few beers but ultimately to support our team. For anyone to leave home to support their team and never come back again is tragic beyond belief. But I'm afraid I don't understand, as someone who is impartial, how blame for the death can be so confidently pinned on Eric Cantona. I imagine if it was an Albion fan, I'd feel the same - it would be so close to home as to hamper my ability to be able to look at it objectively.

It's a very sensitive subject, and I completely understand the high-running emotions of Palace fans when it is discussed, so I'll shut-up about it now.

 

[Easy 10]

I'm really not getting into a tantrum on this Springal. Bozza asked a question I responded with a logical reply. I think if the situation was reversed and some scumbag Man United fan had stabbed and then thrown a breezeblock at a Brighton fans head knocking him down in front of the coach trying to get away then you would all feel very strongly about it.

I'm asking that people like Edna have a little decorum over this and not try and turn the tragic murder of a football fan into something to try and pointscore against Palace about.

Its not a pointscoring exercise. Just that linking the two incidents, putting direct blame on the Cantona incident for the death of Paul Nixon, takes something of a leap of logic from most (neutral) viewpoints.

It was a random act of thuggery which had tragic consequences. Who's to say it wouldn't have happened had Man U's opponents that day been Norwich, or Bolton, or anyone elses fans standing outside that pub. A thug doesn't need an excuse or a reason as motivation to attack someone - they just do it.

Unless you have evidence saying otherwise, pinning the whole thing on the Cantona incident seems tenuous and assumptive.

 

[FloatLeft]

Can someone explain the link between Cantona's attack and Paul Nixon's death?

 

[COYP]

This is the point I'm trying to make though.

"Some scumbag Man United fan" is the only person responsible for someone losing his life. That's it. You can't take it to the nth degree and cite the actions of a footballer who lost his rag as a contributory factor. Thousands of people witnessed the Cantona incident. They didn't all go and act like thugs because of it. It's an entirely separate issue.

It wasn't just one, it was all of them that day. They blamed us with them losing the title. I was at the game and got spat at by a Man United fan outside who said 'That's for Eric'. I was 12 at the time. Many other fans had similar experiences that day and like it or not it all stemmed from Cantona diving into that crowd.

Unrelated to Nixon's murder then actually he should have been banned for life that day, just as Matthew Simmons was.

 

[COYP]

Its not a pointscoring exercise. Just that linking the two incidents, putting direct blame on the Cantona incident for the death of Paul Nixon, takes something of a leap of logic from most (neutral) viewpoints.

It was a random act of thuggery which had tragic consequences. Who's to say it wouldn't have happened had Man U's opponents that day been Norwich, or Bolton, or anyone elses fans standing outside that pub. A thug doesn't need an excuse or a reason as motivation to attack someone - they just do it.

Unless you have evidence saying otherwise, pinning the whole thing on the Cantona incident seems tenuous and assumptive.

Start the car.

At least one of our resident Palace chums will be on here shortly to conclusively and definitively link the actions of Cantona to the (tragic) death of a Palace fan who was run over by a coach at a Villa Park cup semi final months later.

To me that reads as a definite line to goad Palace fans. Yes I'm seeing it as pointscoring. I suspect any other Palace fan reading this thread will take it the same way.

 

[edna krabappel]

Its not a pointscoring exercise. Just that linking the two incidents, putting direct blame on the Cantona incident for the death of Paul Nixon, takes something of a leap of logic from most (neutral) viewpoints.

It was a random act of thuggery which had tragic consequences. Who's to say it wouldn't have happened had Man U'd opponents that day been Norwich, or Bolton, or anyone elses fans standing outside that pub. A thug doesn't need an excuse or a reason as motivation to attack someone - they just do it.

Unless you have evidence saying otherwise, pinning the whole thing on the Cantona incident seems tenuous and assumptive.

100% this.


We are all humans, responsible for our own actions. If the United moron in question had appeared in court and said he couldn't help himself, that his actions were some sort of uncontrollable involuntary reaction because of what had gone on with Cantona, he'd have been laughed out of the building.

COYP- you can't say "all of them that day" re United fans, any more than I'd say Matthew Simmonds was representative of ALL Palace fans.

There were plenty of dicks in United clothing around, I'm sure. But I imagine there were plenty wearing red & blue too. It's just the way it is.

Football fans as a whole don't demonise Cantona over this because they regard it as quite funny- an idiotic thug (with his own convictions for violence) got a bit of a comeback for once even if it was from an arrogant United player. I'd have found that mildly amusing even if the guy had been a Norwich fan, or an Exeter fan, or a Bradford fan. Quite obviously there's always going to be an added bit of spice to it here because he was Palace. It was wrong by Cantona, but nobody was hurt. He got banned for ages, and convicted in court. That seems quite reasonable to me.

Banned for life? Not for me.

 

[COYP]

Would you be saying the same Edna if he had done it at Brighton? I've read threads before on here saying about any fan who runs onto the pitch to hit a player should be banned for life so why wouldn't you feel the same when its the other way around?

 

[Danny-Boy]

I would be very surprised if many Manchester United fans have even heard of Crystal Palace FC, let alone have any knowledge of their history.

I wonder then who was that side who went to Old Trafford recently in the League Cup and beat them with a starring role going to.. now who was it? Some bloke we got from the coast somewhere...

Not the first time we upset the MU establishment. 1972 December and we beat them 5-0 at Selhurst. Cue sacking of Man U manager Frank O'Farrell (a Scotsman). Watch out Moyesey..

 

[WhingForPresident]

"Any idiot who tries to wear a Cantona mask to Selhurst on Saturday, should be refused entry. As simple as that."

 

[COYP]

"Any idiot who tries to wear a Cantona mask to Selhurst on Saturday, should be refused entry. As simple as that."

Either way the masks are being worn to goad Palace fans so it would make sense for anyone wearing a Cantona mask to be refused entry.

 

[chamakh_attack]

I can't say I agree with the link at all. Yeah Cantona was a dick that day at Selhurst - yes Simmons was equally. But blaming it directly on the frenchman or the incident itself seems tenuous and seems more of an attempt at giving the bad feeling a focus and an icon (of hate and adoration).

If one of our own were tragically taken from us in a similar situation would any of us blame Venables, Allison, Mullery, Murray or Ron Challis?

It was tragic. It was an awful example of football violence. But that is all it was. Moan Utd fans bringing masks are only using the Palace fan's misdirected hatred against them. It is not a celebration of anything. Probably not even a celebration of an obviously talented player. It is goading. We should not rise to it. Just support our team peacefully to a home win. That will be the best way to shut up the mask wearers.

 

[Springal]

I can't say I agree with the link at all. Yeah Cantona was a dick that day at Selhurst - yes Simmons was equally. But blaming it directly on the frenchman or the incident itself seems tenuous and seems more of an attempt at giving the bad feeling a focus and an icon (of hate and adoration).

If one of our own were tragically taken from us in a similar situation would any of us blame Venables, Allison, Mullery, Murray or Ron Challis?

It was tragic. It was an awful example of football violence. But that is all it was. Moan Utd fans bringing masks are only using the Palace fan's misdirected hatred against them. It is not a celebration of anything. Probably not even a celebration of an obviously talented player. It is goading. We should not rise to it. Just support our team peacefully to a home win. That will be the best way to shut up the mask wearers.

Common sense has arrived. Well done!

 

[Richy_Seagull]

Then why not look at the actual first thing in the chain which was Cantona hacking down Richard Shaw because Shaw had had him in his pocket all game?

hahaha

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Then why not look at the actual first thing in the chain which was Cantona hacking down Richard Shaw because Shaw had had him in his pocket all game?

Ha ha ha, hilarious.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I wonder then who was that side who went to Old Trafford recently in the League Cup and beat them with a starring role going to.. now who was it? Some bloke we got from the coast somewhere...

Not the first time we upset the MU establishment. 1972 December and we beat them 5-0 at Selhurst. Cue sacking of Man U manager Frank O'Farrell (a Scotsman). Watch out Moyesey..

So so relevant, well done!