Palace Away And Our Rights

[Thunder Bolt]

An alternative could be buses only and collection of tickets at Pease Pottage similar to what has happened with other fans at high risk games

Indeed. Think of the howls of protest if this was deemed to be a bubble game.

 

[portlock seagull]

An alternative could be buses only and collection of tickets at Pease Pottage similar to what has happened with other fans at high risk games

Yes I love popping down to pease pottage to get the bus back up to London cause we all live in Sussex. Man Utd run similar scheme from Manchester when playing Arsenal. None of their fans live in London, all have flat caps and drink Boddingtons handily still.

 

[edna krabappel]

Police in football crowd mismanagement shocker! Is anyone remotely surprised? hillsborough? FFS they get Millwall games wrong still to this day as the Wembley semi final showed. So because complete incompetence we now all have to suffer. Its the football family and all that, we have to share the pain. So Leave your democratic rights at home and you'll be fine. Enjoy the retro experience, 80s are back everyone! Pwolice are pwappa twooled up for twoble and anyone looking for it or singing will be banned, fined and beaten cause you're all animals. Animals I say! Think I might give this one a miss...a lot of me hoping it'll be Bolton so I can go to that one! Palace away - more frightened of the police in recent years than spotty finest from Thornton Heath!

Amazing. A few Millwall knobbers turn up so it must be down to the police. Are we in danger of missing the actual miscreants here?

 

[leigull]

I'm talking about potential stops by police OUTSIDE the ground. Could happen and I'm fed up of being treated like a ****ing terrorist because I support a football team.

I'd hope terrorists are on the receiving end of slightly harsher treatment than being asked to take some ID to a football match, as they MAY be asked to show it (no doubt only if they are being seen to cause trouble).

 

[brakespear]

Police in football crowd mismanagement shocker! Is anyone remotely surprised? hillsborough? FFS they get Millwall games wrong still to this day as the Wembley semi final showed. So because complete incompetence we now all have to suffer. Its the football family and all that, we have to share the pain. So Leave your democratic rights at home and you'll be fine. Enjoy the retro experience, 80s are back everyone! Pwolice are pwappa twooled up for twoble and anyone looking for it or singing will be banned, fined and beaten cause you're all animals. Animals I say! Think I might give this one a miss...a lot of me hoping it'll be Bolton so I can go to that one! Palace away - more frightened of the police in recent years than spotty finest from Thornton Heath!

I don't know why but I can't help but feel that you have some sort of hidden agenda here that you have skillfully masked with the general cut and thrust of your thread

 

[Triggaaar]

The rights are up to the person selling the tickets, like if a gig says 18 and over only, or World Cup tickets require passports to stop touting. Same with the champions league final one person needs ID in the 2 person party. You have no grounds for anything so stop crying about it

That's all to get in, and once you're in. They do not have the right to search you etc when you're not in the ground/going in etc.

You can side step it all you want, but if you buy a ticket the terms and conditions will state;

You agree to hand over your ticket and identity document for examination by a police officer or steward at the stadium or en route to or from the stadium.


Therefore if you fail to do so, the following applies;

6. Failure to produce the ticket and an identity document for examination will result in refusal of entry to the match and any future matches this season.

But if you fail to produce a ticket because you don't have a ticket, then you haven't agreed to the terms and conditions on a ticket you haven't bought.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Amazing. A few Millwall knobbers turn up so it must be down to the police. Are we in danger of missing the actual miscreants here?

Sorry but,

If the stewards and/or Police had arrived a little more quickly (less than 10 minutes) then the problems may have been minimised more quickly.

 

[El Presidente]

I wonder if these rules would be applied if two rugby union teams who were rivals drew each other in an important game?

 

[countryman]

And what is the harm in showing your id? I can't see any problem with them wanting to be able to know who is at the game.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Police in football crowd mismanagement shocker! Is anyone remotely surprised? hillsborough? FFS they get Millwall games wrong still to this day as the Wembley semi final showed. So because complete incompetence we now all have to suffer. Its the football family and all that, we have to share the pain. So Leave your democratic rights at home and you'll be fine. Enjoy the retro experience, 80s are back everyone! Pwolice are pwappa twooled up for twoble and anyone looking for it or singing will be banned, fined and beaten cause you're all animals. Animals I say! Think I might give this one a miss...a lot of me hoping it'll be Bolton so I can go to that one! Palace away - more frightened of the police in recent years than spotty finest from Thornton Heath!

You mention suffering. Who's suffering? You need get a sense of reality.

 

[atfc village]

I wonder if these rules would be applied if two rugby union teams who were rivals drew each other in an important game?

No there wouldn't be a Rugby ground big enough bar Twickenham that could hold such a big game.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The question I would ask is what powers do the police have to assist a commercial organisation to enforce its conditions of sale, by stopping members of the public in the street and requiring the production of ID?

And what piece of legislation gives them these powers?

 

[Triggaaar]

The question I would ask is what powers do the police have to assist a commercial organisation to enforce its conditions of sale, by stopping members of the public in the street and requiring the production of ID?

Firstly, if they are members of public in the street, then who says they've even bought anything (ie, a ticket) for there to be any conditions of sale. Secondly, you can't put anything you like on the conditions of sale, and it be lawful. You can't, for example, tell customers that if they agree to have a season ticket, that the police and stewards have the right to search you any time of the year, day or night. Of course that would be preposterous, but the fact is they can't take away your normal rights just because you are buying something, so the same principle applies to a one off game. I'm not convinced they have the right to ask for ID when you're not on/trying to get into private property.

 

[Foolg]

If an Officer of at least the rank of Inspector believes that there may be weapon carrying or serious violence in a particular area, temporary powers under S60 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 may be authorised so that anyone in that area (e.g. near a football ground) may be searched for weapons without the Police Officer needing to have reasonable grounds for each person searched.

can see this being authorised so dont be surprised if there are random stop searches.

Been questioned under s60 twice.

Once was at Orient away (3 or 4 seasons back). Needless to say, I was 16, with a friend and was carrying nothing but a bottle of lucozade. We were both stopped under s60, I didn't have a clue what was going on, went to get my phone to tell my old man i'd be 5 minutes late meeting him with my ticket, and next thing i've got both hands up against a shop window in the middle of the high street and the coppers drawn his baton.

Second time was Villa away. Both times your made to stand out in busy places, it's extremely embarrassing. Especially at 16 when you haven't a clue whats going on.

As you say though, S60 CJPOA allows it, and can allow mass searches on occassions under authority. Since studying Law, it turns out the only reason I was (likely) stopped is the simple fact that the ethnicity records of those stopped were so one sided in favour of ethnic minorities, that the police have since started stopping people to even up the books.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Seems most people aren't bothered by this, which is interesting considering the massive opposition to national ID cards

 

[Triggaaar]

As you say though, S60 CJPOA allows it, and can allow mass searches on occassions under authority.

But only to be search for a weapon, not to search you for tickets etc.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Whoever it was at Brighton and Hove Albion FC that put their name to these rules should resign, tomorrow. They have no place working at a football club where the fans are the customers paying a huge amount of money to follow the team, not sub-human scum. And those threatened bans are beyond belief, totally absurd.

 

[Rich Suvner]

Firstly, if they are members of public in the street, then who says they've even bought anything (ie, a ticket) for there to be any conditions of sale. Secondly, you can't put anything you like on the conditions of sale, and it be lawful. You can't, for example, tell customers that if they agree to have a season ticket, that the police and stewards have the right to search you any time of the year, day or night. Of course that would be preposterous, but the fact is they can't take away your normal rights just because you are buying something, so the same principle applies to a one off game. I'm not convinced they have the right to ask for ID when you're not on/trying to get into private property.

Some good replies from Lord B and Triggaaaar. Its the attempt to enforce powers outside ground I cannot abide.

 

[Wozza]

Police in football crowd mismanagement shocker! Is anyone remotely surprised? hillsborough? FFS they get Millwall games wrong still to this day as the Wembley semi final showed. So because complete incompetence we now all have to suffer. Its the football family and all that, we have to share the pain. So Leave your democratic rights at home and you'll be fine. Enjoy the retro experience, 80s are back everyone! Pwolice are pwappa twooled up for twoble and anyone looking for it or singing will be banned, fined and beaten cause you're all animals. Animals I say! Think I might give this one a miss...a lot of me hoping it'll be Bolton so I can go to that one! Palace away - more frightened of the police in recent years than spotty finest from Thornton Heath!

Regardless of whether you agree with the slightly unusual rules, or whether you actually qualify for the ticket, surely you're not arguing that there will be MORE trouble because of this?

More MOANING on messageboards and a slight inconvenience for those attending, maybe, but not more trouble.

 

[Wozza]

Firstly, if they are members of public in the street, then who says they've even bought anything (ie, a ticket) for there to be any conditions of sale. Secondly, you can't put anything you like on the conditions of sale, and it be lawful. You can't, for example, tell customers that if they agree to have a season ticket, that the police and stewards have the right to search you any time of the year, day or night. Of course that would be preposterous, but the fact is they can't take away your normal rights just because you are buying something, so the same principle applies to a one off game. I'm not convinced they have the right to ask for ID when you're not on/trying to get into private property.

Authorities often won't let you get near a sporting venue without a ticket in hand. Is this really so different?