Owen

[Pavilionaire]

Sadly for you we will qualify, so it is not a problem.

For all the anti Sven feeling festering amongst yourself, Easy and Pavilionaire, not one of you have come up with a sensible alternative. It seems as long as they are English then it is fine by you, even if it does mean returning to the dark days of Taylor or the passion by f*** wit management of Keegan.

I've gone on record as saying I'd be very happy with McLaren as manager.

In an ideal world we'd have Wenger or Mourinho.

The problem with international football is that because the top players have so many big club games the vast majority of them coast when playing for their country and do enough just to get a result but not enough to excite or inspire.

Sven is a master of getting his team just to do enough, and the players know it.

The problem is games like Nigeria WC02, where we only needed a draw to qualify so we coasted, drew, then came up against Brazil, whereas if we'd raised our game and won we would have been in the easy part of the draw and possibly gone on, as a mediocre Germany did, to the Final itself.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I've gone on record as saying I'd be very happy with McLaren as manager.

In an ideal world we'd have Wenger or Mourinho.

The problem with international football is that because the top players have so many big club games the vast majority of them coast when playing for their country and do enough just to get a result but not enough to excite or inspire.

Sven is a master of getting his team just to do enough, and the players know it.

The problem is games like Nigeria WC02, where we only needed a draw to qualify so we coasted, drew, then came up against Brazil, whereas if we'd raised our game and won we would have been in the easy part of the draw and possibly gone on, as a mediocre Germany did, to the Final itself.

Against Nigeria we did exactly what was needed. We did not particualy want to win that group, as the second round game would have been a 1530 kick off in the south of Japan, which would have been very hot and humid and was likely to be against the unknown quantity of Senegal. By coming second it meant we got to play in the evening in Nigatta against Denmark, a team we knew about and the conditions would be a tad more European. So it was a good gamble to go for the draw.

The Brazil game, I have said this before it was scorching in the stands that day, so what it was like on the pitch I do not know. We got beaten by a freakish goal, but yes we should have come back into the game, we had the extra man, but we could not and it was annoying.

On the Germans side of the tournament the draw just opened up for them, everyone good kept getting knocked out. England did end up on the harder side, which included Brazil, Denmark, Turkey (who were the surprise of that tournament), Senegal who did look decent and I think Sweden (who we never beat).

 

[Pavilionaire]

Uncle Buck, are you saying it was better to draw to get Denmark then Brazil, rather than win and play Senegal and then Turkey??

I think we had enough in our locker to beat Senegal in whatever weather, then Turkey in the quarters. Brazil would also have had to beat an obdurate Sweden team just to meet us in the Semis.

If a team believes it can win the World Cup it should not be settling for a bore draw with Nigeria, but that's Sven all over.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Uncle Buck, are you saying it was better to draw to get Denmark then Brazil, rather than win and play Senegal and then Turkey??

I think we had enough in our locker to beat Senegal in whatever weather, then Turkey in the quarters. Brazil would also have had to beat an obdurate Sweden team just to meet us in the Semis.

If a team believes it can win the World Cup it should not be settling for a bore draw with Nigeria, but that's Sven all over.

I think the decision was made that playing Denmark in Nigatta was the better option. I guess there was some hope that Belgium would have put Brazil out in the second round.

 

[Marshy]

Uncle Buck, are you saying it was better to draw to get Denmark then Brazil, rather than win and play Senegal and then Turkey??

I think we had enough in our locker to beat Senegal in whatever weather, then Turkey in the quarters. Brazil would also have had to beat an obdurate Sweden team just to meet us in the Semis.

If a team believes it can win the World Cup it should not be settling for a bore draw with Nigeria, but that's Sven all over.

Spot on SVEN ALL OVER

 

[Uncle Buck]

Spot on SVEN ALL OVER

Of course it is, pesky foreigner...

 

[Pavilionaire]

If that was the plan then it didn't work.

I can see what you are saying, i.e. take your chances with Brazil in the quarters, but only Sven would refuse a clear path to the semis.

Also, there was never any chance of Belgium beating Brazil, not if they played them 100 times in a row...

 

[Uncle Buck]

If that was the plan then it didn't work.

I can see what you are saying, i.e. take your chances with Brazil in the quarters, but only Sven would refuse a clear path to the semis.

Also, there was never any chance of Belgium beating Brazil, not if they played them 100 times in a row...

From what I remember (the haze of an Irish Bar in Osaka), Belgium ran them fairly close. Brazil were not great in that tournament.

 

[Turkey]

I like Sven - think we do well on the big stage and changing now wouldn't help.

Luke Young is quality, Charlton's Player of the Season and now Captain. Granted it was all over by then, but I went to Chelsea/Charlton last season and he played very well - Chelsea were lucky to win when Lampard dived in the last minute, outside the box if I recall rightly, and Makelele but in the rebound after his penalty was saved.

 

[Scotty Mac]

I like Sven - think we do well on the big stage and changing now wouldn't help.

as do i - we always seem to perform better on the big stage, and there is none bigger than the world cup

 

[Pavilionaire]

From what I remember (the haze of an Irish Bar in Osaka), Belgium ran them fairly close. Brazil were not great in that tournament.

Brazil beat Belgium 2-0, they won all of their 7 tournament matches scoring 18 goals and conceding 4. They also had the top scorer in Ronaldo.

How, exactly, is that "not great"?

 

[Scotty Mac]

Brazil beat Belgium 2-0, they won all of their 7 tournament matches scoring 18 goals and conceding 4. They also had the top scorer in Ronaldo.

How, exactly, is that "not great"?

they didn't exactly have a tough route to the final though

when teams like france, spain and italy go out early, then it is always going to be easier

 

[Pavilionaire]

they didn't exactly have a tough route to the final though

when teams like france, spain and italy go out early, then it is always going to be easier

So beating England and Germany is a piece of piss is it??

 

[Silent Bob]

as do i - we always seem to perform better on the big stage

Yep like the World Cup quarter final against Brazil, our opening group game of Euro 2004 against France, the knock out game against Portugal.

 

[Scotty Mac]

So beating England and Germany is a piece of piss is it??

germany were not that good a side then - hell, less than a year before even we beat them 5-1. they also failed to beat wales

as for beating england, it was a fluke goal that should never have gone in. brazil also very nearly failed to qualify for the tournamemt

however, in the coming world cup i think they will easily win it

 

[Uncle Buck]

Brazil beat Belgium 2-0, they won all of their 7 tournament matches scoring 18 goals and conceding 4. They also had the top scorer in Ronaldo.

How, exactly, is that "not great"?

It was not a great Brazil side, Turkey ran them close in both their games against them and if Rivaldo had not cheated and got the Turk sent off in the group game, Turkey may well have got something out of it.

Belgium played well against Brazil but probably did not have the fire power. England probably should have won that game and Turkey again played well against them in the semi. Their easiest knock out game was probably the final against a poor Germany side.

The 2002 World Cup was odd as a number of the established teams went out in the group stages and then teams like Italy and Spain messed up in the early rounds, hence the Germans got to the final.

Before the tournament Brazil were not overly fancied, the 2 to watch were meant to be Argentina and France and they both messed up big time.

 

[Scotty Mac]

Yep like the World Cup quarter final against Brazil, our opening group game of Euro 2004 against France, the knock out game against Portugal.

yeah, and we were piss poor when we beat argentina, denmark, croatia

 

[Silent Bob]

yeah, and we were piss poor when we beat argentina, denmark, croatia

We defended a one goal lead against an average Argentina side, and Denmark and Croatia, wow, massive games alright.

 

[Scotty Mac]

We defended a one goal lead against an average Argentina side, and Denmark and Croatia, wow, massive games alright.

didn't brazil stuggle to beat croatia recently?

and the fact that denmark won their group and qualified ahead of france means that they were obviously not that bad

 

[Pavilionaire]

Even when German appear to be weak (as in Euro 2000 and WC 2002) they are still one hell of a tough team to beat.

England need to be working on the basis that we will need to beat probably three of France, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Holland and Germany to win the World Cup.

Therefore, we need to demonstrate that we can turn on our best form at will before the tournament starts so we have that self-belief, the same self-belief that wasn't there vs Brazil in 2002.