Our troops homecoming

[goldstone]

And your solution for dealing with Al Qaeda is?

There would likely have been no Al Qaeda if the USA and the UK had not gone poking their noses into other people's business and marching into Arab countries to impose western democracy on them. And, particularly in the case of the USA, taken a more even handed approach to the Israel/Palestine problem by putting pressure on Israel 25 years ago to reach a settlement with the Palestinians.

 

[DT Withdean]

There would likely have been no Al Qaeda if the USA and the UK had not gone poking their noses into other people's business and marching into Arab countries to impose western democracy on them. And, particularly in the case of the USA, taken a more even handed approach to the Israel/Palestine problem by putting pressure on Israel 25 years ago to reach a settlement with the Palestinians.

How do you solve the Holylands problem of 3 religions fighting over the same land for 2,000+ years?
You want the USA to mind their own business, but apparently that dispute could have been solved by them round the table.

We have a history of poking our noses into things abroad. In 1939 and 1940 we're stuck up nose into the affairs of Poland and France. Should've stayed out in Englander land. No intervention.

And your view on the Taliban murdering women, banning education for women. Just ignore?
What practically, in the real world, now, would you have done to protect women there?

 

[Samej]

No they're not ALL heroes. Some are no doubt, but just because you choose a career in the military and get posted to some place where there's a conflict going on doesn't automatically make you a hero.

The use of the word in these circumstances shows disrespect to the true war heroes. Brave men (and some women) who were conscripted or volunteered to fight for the freedom of their country in the two World Wars. They were heroes.

The word hero is used too often nowadays to describe sportsmen and the like ,our troops abroad are putting them selves at risk every day, you are not ,i am not .They do not all receive medals for gallantry or bravery but by signing up and serving they are prepared to give their lives , that makes them heroes ,they are fighting so that you and i can lead a normal lives, God bless em.My Great Grandad was at the Somme my Grandad fought in the second world war , neither received medals for gallantry, both survived thank god.They are and will always be heroes that fought to keep this country free, along with too many others to count,.

 

[BadFish]

If we went into Iraq (Hussain hated Bin Laden) and Afghanistan to get Al Qaede then why are we not straight into Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and all the other countries that have training camps in them.

If we went in to free the locals from vicious dictators then why are we not in Burma, Zimbabwe and other countries with an aggressive dictator?

Thanks for trying Dingo Dan Brunswick and the other. There are none so blind as those that won't see.

 

[pauli cee]

yeh, this is all great.
how about sending some 'heroes' back into somolia, sudan and the rest of the civil wars in africa, i'm sure DRC ,(congo), could do with a hand, as well a few before them.
then again, not much profit there, without upsetting the wrong people.

total respect for all returning soldiers tho, and think most of their experiences deserve our full respect.
have 2 cousins myself returning soon, very mixed stories from both.

peace xx

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

You make the "political decision" sound like a technicality. It has cost so many lives, and will continue to do so, until people see this war for what it is.

I sympathise with people just wanting us all to be nice and wave flags and show our appreciation. But that does not help our soldiers, not really.

If we care about the troops at all, we should bring them home. It tends to be the people that end wars, not the politicians. So people have to change their minds. I dont call people names, I dont say bad things about our troops, I just dont want to see any more people die without cause.

But the troops were at home, right here in Sussex today, and we showed them our support. You may have missed that point !

 

[chucky1973]

The word hero is used too often nowadays to describe sportsmen and the like ,our troops abroad are putting them selves at risk every day, you are not ,i am not .They do not all receive medals for gallantry or bravery but by signing up and serving they are prepared to give their lives , that makes them heroes ,they are fighting so that you and i can lead a normal lives, God bless em.My Great Grandad was at the Somme my Grandad fought in the second world war , neither received medals for gallantry, both survived thank god.They are and will always be heroes that fought to keep this country free, along with too many others to count,.

Very true, My Nephew is in Afgan now in K Company of The Royal Marines. Only this Saturday After losing 4 fellow men of the Royal Marines (one from his company) in the last 3 weeks he got caught up in a fire fight whilst on patrol where his best friend (whom he rooms with when in Plymouth) was shot twice in the chest, THANKFULLY both bullets hit his body armour and he suffered no damage and was able to continue fighting. To me that is heroic, I question all the time why they are there, but they are there, patroling with 80lbs on there back in 50 degree heat. And do you know what, he gets £15K per year and a bonus of £5k for his tour. They dont have to do it, but they choose too as they want to make a differance.

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

Just popped on this thread to see if the Percy's got a good welcome in Brighton. Should have known what it would have turned into on here.

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't identify you, my key point was on Page 1. Still six pages must have stretched the grey matter a little tad and Page 1 forgotten by the time you entered "the debate"

 

[Bold Seagull]

If we went into Iraq (Hussain hated Bin Laden) and Afghanistan to get Al Qaede then why are we not straight into Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and all the other countries that have training camps in them.

If we went in to free the locals from vicious dictators then why are we not in Burma, Zimbabwe and other countries with an aggressive dictator?

Thanks for trying Dingo Dan Brunswick and the other. There are none so blind as those that won't see.

A nicely simplified argument. I was under the impression that the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan (neither of which I supported) were due to them being a directly perceived threat to our safety and security, namely the mysterious WoMD's, and the training camps and housing of Al Quaeda. Whether this is true or not is the subject of conjecture and not fact, which has been most people's problem with Dan, and Brunswick who have basically used their own propaganda tools from the books they've been spouting from.

There are none so blind as those that won't see. Again, statements like that sound scarily religious to me. I'm sure you have faith in your facts.

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

Ahh MLK - wasn't he the great baptist minister that was ploughing through half his female congregation? Glad you brought him up as an example of moral superiority.

I therefore suggest following dingodon's quote, the case for the defence is closed M'Lord.

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

There would likely have been no Al Qaeda if the USA and the UK had not gone poking their noses into other people's business and marching into Arab countries to impose western democracy on them. And, particularly in the case of the USA, taken a more even handed approach to the Israel/Palestine problem by putting pressure on Israel 25 years ago to reach a settlement with the Palestinians.

M'Lord I refer you to my defence evidence entered earlier in this case to the allegations offered by goldstone

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

If we went into Iraq (Hussain hated Bin Laden) and Afghanistan to get Al Qaede then why are we not straight into Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and all the other countries that have training camps in them.

If we went in to free the locals from vicious dictators then why are we not in Burma, Zimbabwe and other countries with an aggressive dictator?

Thanks for trying Dingo Dan Brunswick and the other. There are none so blind as those that won't see.

Time to put your glasses on then !

 

[BadFish]

A nicely simplified argument. I was under the impression that the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan (neither of which I supported) were due to them being a directly perceived threat to our safety and security, namely the mysterious WoMD's, and the training camps and housing of Al Quaeda. Whether this is true or not is the subject of conjecture and not fact, which has been most people's problem with Dan, and Brunswick who have basically used their own propaganda tools from the books they've been spouting from.

There are none so blind as those that won't see. Again, statements like that sound scarily religious to me. I'm sure you have faith in your facts.

We are talking about the weapons of Mass Destruction that did not exist? So what about the other countries that house Al Qaede training camps?

For an argument that is over simplified you have failed to answer it. Logic dictates that if these are the reasons for invading these countries then surely we should have invaded others also. The question remains: Why choose these countries and not the others around the world in the same situation?

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

We are talking about the weapons of Mass Destruction that did not exist? So what about the other countries that house Al Qaede training camps?

For an argument that is over simplified you have failed to answer it. Logic dictates that if these are the reasons for invading these countries then surely we should have invaded others also. The question remains: Why choose these countries and not the others around the world in the same situation?

Get real my friend, this is a religious/ideology battle as well, the taliban/islam have told us so. So we sit back adopt their religious beliefs then ? Try telling your girlfriend, wife or partner. Girlfriend/Wife would be stoned to death for infidelity and if its your partner (I think you know where I'm coming from) then both of you stoned to death, if that's fine by you then I think you need to consult your thoughts a little bit more. Don't forget these are the same people who were behind the murder of Robert Eaton, whose charity we have supported for 10 years. Is his innocent death acceptable to you then ? no ifs, no buts, no maybe's...please answer that last question as clear as you can !! I can't wait for this one. RIP Robert Eaton

 

[Bry Nylon]

Our soldiers, sailors and aircrew don't have the luxury of debate about the whys and wherefores. They just go and do what is asked of them, and they do it better than any other armed forces in the world, bar non.

For that I am eternally grateful and proud of what they have done and continue to do, and always will be.

My parents taught me that Remembrance Sunday is the most important day of the year and I hope I can teach my kids the same.

 

[BadFish]

Get real my friend, this is a religious/ideology battle as well, the taliban/islam have told us so. So we sit back adopt their religious beliefs then ? Try telling your girlfriend, wife or partner. Girlfriend/Wife would be stoned to death for infidelity and if its your partner (I think you know where I'm coming from) then both of you stoned to death, if that's fine by you then I think you need to consult your thoughts a little bit more. Don't forget these are the same people who were behind the murder of Robert Eaton, whose charity we have supported for 10 years. Is his innocent death acceptable to you then ? no ifs, no buts, no maybe's...please answer that last question as clear as you can !! I can't wait for this one. RIP Robert Eaton

I too had a friend die in the September the 11th attacks and for a time was very angry but i don't see how more innocent civilian deaths in other countries make up for that or bring back any of the people that died in 911. So in answer to your questions his or my friends death is not acceptable but neither are the deaths of tens of thousands (exact numbers are hard to pin down) of innocent civilians in illegal wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. I would like this whole thing to stop and for people to stop dying and I believe that we have to look at the reasons for terrorism in order to stop it.

As for the first part of your argument. the attacks were because of American foreign policy in the holy lands of the middle east. For example the position of the Americans with the Israelis against the Palestinians. I don't believe that Bin Laden or Al Qaede want to force their beliefs on us . If you can show me some evidence that this is the case i will gladly change my mind.

"Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame. ... We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets, and this is what the fatwah says ... . The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims. " - Osama bin Laden May 1998

http://www.representativepress.org/Motivesfor911.html

I was confused for years about the situation in the middle east (especially Palestine ) until i decided to look into it and read some alternate views on the subject. To me they made much more sense than the things i read and heard in the mainstream media.

 

[User removed 4]

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't identify you, my key point was on Page 1. Still six pages must have stretched the grey matter a little tad and Page 1 forgotten by the time you entered "the debate"

Er, because he's ex Royal Navy and" percy pongo" is a nickname the Navy have for the Army , he is very pro our boys, you owe him an apolopgy jimbo.

 

[User removed 4]

Unbelievable, this is what the boys( and girls) are up against
Armed Forces Day: British Legion banners banned for 'glorifying war' - Telegraph

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

Er, because he's ex Royal Navy and" percy pongo" is a nickname the Navy have for the Army , he is very pro our boys, you owe him an apolopgy jimbo.

Apology duly offered by PM

 

[User removed 4]

Apology duly offered by PM

nice one mate.