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[Football] Not what they thought they were buying- Ashworth and Winstanley



Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,385
Goldstone
I think Newcastle are recruiting well. Despite being megarich they are bringing in players who will help them stay in the European places whilst moving out the players that started in the team that yoyed between the divisions. Pope, Trippier, Botman, Burn, Targett, Guimaraes, Izak, Gordon are all good signings, and they're managing to ship out of the deadwood, like Shelvey, Chris Wood, Hayden, Hendrick, Clark.
They signed Chris Wood
 








nickjhs

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 9, 2017
1,352
Ballarat, Australia
Absolutely correct. And this is precisely why I was so astonished and disappointed when Potter left, because it was obvious that his unique qualities - the ability to mould an egalitarian team of level headed players subordinate to his vision - would be the polar opposite of what would be happening at Chelsea.
Yep and this reality seems to be sinking in. I saw a press photo of him the other day, he looks half broken and its only taken 5 months.
 


Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,087
I'm not convinced about Ashworth's value tbh.
It may just be because I remember him as an Orpington school P.E. teacher, though.

I think the main advantage he had (on the recruitment side of things) was his knowledge of all the youth talent available, when he was working with the F.A.
The longer he is away from that environment, the less useful that knowledge is.

Other than that, it's just about having a robust structure within the academy set up.
None of that is rocket science, just requires a supportive ownership.
 




Nobby

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2007
2,696
I'm not convinced about Ashworth's value tbh.
It may just be because I remember him as an Orpington school P.E. teacher, though.

I think the main advantage he had (on the recruitment side of things) was his knowledge of all the youth talent available, when he was working with the F.A.
The longer he is away from that environment, the less useful that knowledge is.

Other than that, it's just about having a robust structure within the academy set up.
None of that is rocket science, just requires a supportive ownership.
This
Cashworth gets a lot of praise on here - but him and Potter were just stepping stones in the Grand Plan for Tony Bloom I think.
Although it’s interesting that the club made a lot more fuss about Cashworth going than they did when the entire back room staff buggered off!
So maybe it was perceived that he did have some value
Just never liked the bloke and his faux East End accent
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,385
Goldstone
But you could argue Did the job required
albeit very short term Helped keep em up
helped Burnley down by his absence
Yes I know, but in the context of the post, he's not deadwood from the last owners that the new owners are removing.
 


chickens

Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,088
Actually I’m pretty convinced that they’ll do well for their respective clubs, and are earning more as well.

It’s not an area where the impact is instant, but has a cumulative effect transfer window after transfer window. As long as there’s no corresponding decline in the quality of our prospects in, I wish them well, they were good for us.
 






vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,978
Absolutely correct. And this is precisely why I was so astonished and disappointed when Potter left, because it was obvious that his unique qualities - the ability to mould an egalitarian team of level headed players subordinate to his vision - would be the polar opposite of what would be happening at Chelsea. (Boehly wanted to sign Ronaldo at one point remember - wonder what Graham thought of that!) Potter is such an intelligent individual that he must have realised what he was letting himself in for, and so the only conclusion possible is that it really was simply about the money, and his decision was that the huge material rewards were more important that the fact that the appointment was a risk which may set his career back years.

Of course, he may be able to adapt and get it right. In any case the ridiculous money spaffed by Chelsea during the last transfer window is part of a process which increasingly sees Chelsea, and the PL in general, becoming the subject of huge resentment in the rest of the world for the ludicrous financial imbalance it brings to the global game. We stand to reap so much goodwill for Bloom's stance re Caicedo, and we will reap more the more we defy the 'Top 7's bloated, entitled attitude.
Players and managers always like to say they want to be tested at the highest level but...if you are Potter at Brighton and you are playing the Big 6 home and away with the Brighton squad you are all being really tested !

It is about the money, win lose or draw Potter could get sacked tomorrow ( plus the entire backroom team ) and never have to work again thanks to the payoff.
 


Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
11,087
This
Cashworth gets a lot of praise on here - but him and Potter were just stepping stones in the Grand Plan for Tony Bloom I think.
Although it’s interesting that the club made a lot more fuss about Cashworth going than they did when the entire back room staff buggered off!
So maybe it was perceived that he did have some value
Just never liked the bloke and his faux East End accent
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he was one of the best in his field.
It's just that field is not as competitive as many of the others.

I suspect he was kept on gardening leave for so long, because he had a lot more knowledge of current targets than the others that left.
 




Official Old Man

Uckfield Seagull
Aug 27, 2011
8,684
Brighton
Or is it that the way StarLizard, Bloom & Barber work. It's all stats and no one person knows who any player is that they are talking about.
 


Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,482
Actually what's going on Chelsea is, I'd argue, being slightly misread. Forget about the fees etc. The reality is that almost ALL of the signings they've made have been in the age bracket we would sign. So essentially they've just signed the absolutely elite picks of any lists they would have had here. There's no doubt, if they don't bankrupt themselves, they're going to be an INCREDIBLE team in a few years. As much as it pains me to say it.
They haven't gone out and bought Neymar etc. They've signed players specifically on an upward curve. Let's be honest here, a lot of those signings are relatively unheard of.
Annoyingly that is rather a good point. I like others have been in the 'why did they need Potter when all they've done is carry on spending money in the same old way?' camp, but perhaps there is method in their madness.
 


Springal

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2005
24,156
GOSBTS
And most of these signings are actually on lower wages to facilitate the longer terms.

Mudryk allegedly on 90k/week which doesn’t really reflect his fee.

Think they’ve been pretty shrewd , if they can manage all of their expectations
 




Dibdab

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2021
944
I'm not convinced about Ashworth's value tbh.
It may just be because I remember him as an Orpington school P.E. teacher, though.

I think the main advantage he had (on the recruitment side of things) was his knowledge of all the youth talent available, when he was working with the F.A.
The longer he is away from that environment, the less useful that knowledge is.

Other than that, it's just about having a robust structure within the academy set up.
None of that is rocket science, just requires a supportive ownership.

I had the fortune to spend a small amount of time with Dan Ashworth when at England on a work leadership development scheme and he is actually very strong in terms of implementing the cultural and relationship aspects of successful teams, which you can clearly see were very healthy at The Albion during his time and I suspect Potter was recruited due to his fit to that blueprint. It is also prevalent in our recruitment of players in terms of "no dick head rule" etc. You can also see how England have improved massively in this respect from his time there.
 


southstandandy

WEST STAND ANDY
Jul 9, 2003
5,776
I still think the next one of the conveyer belt could be Adingra. Liked the look of him in the pre-season friendly and his pace and build are just what we need.
 




Not Andy Naylor

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2007
8,835
Seven Dials
Actually what's going on Chelsea is, I'd argue, being slightly misread. Forget about the fees etc. The reality is that almost ALL of the signings they've made have been in the age bracket we would sign. So essentially they've just signed the absolutely elite picks of any lists they would have had here. There's no doubt, if they don't bankrupt themselves, they're going to be an INCREDIBLE team in a few years. As much as it pains me to say it.
They haven't gone out and bought Neymar etc. They've signed players specifically on an upward curve. Let's be honest here, a lot of those signings are relatively unheard of.
Up to a point, but surely they're going to have to loan players out at some point just to get the squad down to a manageable level - they've already had to leave players out of their Champions League squad who would expect to be playing. And they don't know whether they can achieve a successful blend, or whether those players will develop as they hope - in which case they have tied themselves to players on long contracts that nobody else will want to match. Then there are the players such as Colwill who will return from existing loans with no obvious pathway to the first team now that two or three other players have been signed in their positions.

Of course they can afford to support a few mistakes in the market, and in all probability enough of these signings will pay off to give them a very good team at some point in the future. But it's hardly a very efficient model.
 






Not Andy Naylor

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2007
8,835
Seven Dials
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he was one of the best in his field.
It's just that field is not as competitive as many of the others.

I suspect he was kept on gardening leave for so long, because he had a lot more knowledge of current targets than the others that left.
Or because Newcastle refused to stump up compensation while Chelsea paid up straight away.
 


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