No Southern Trains Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday

[Peter Grummit]

Online timetables are only being posted 24 hours in advance. So trying to plan ahead is hopeless.

My best bet is there will be next to no service Tue/Wed/Fri. Thursday, who knows? I have a meeting in London then a Xmas social Thursday, but as things stand I don't think I'm willing to risk travelling. Can do probably do the meeting by conference call. Sadly, as a self employed home worker I don't have many Xmas socials, and will have to miss this one.

PG

 

[Buzzer]

You haven't a clue, it would take more like TEN years to replace all drivers if they could which they can't

For a start I didn't suggest replacing any drivers.

But if you want to pretend that learning to drive a train takes 2 years longer than learning to be a vet then you crack on in that fantasy world of yours and don't let me stop you.

 

[Grombleton]

I've got to get from (possibly) Horsham to Victoria and back Thursday evening for a gig, probably aiming to get the last train back...am I going to have any problems?

Considering going from Haslemere to Clapham Junction instead so I don't have to deal with Southern, though its more of a ballache.

 

[The Clamp]

Utterly beggars belief!

 

[beorhthelm]

Because the roll out is going to happen on routes that they have signed off as safe. The company are signing routes off that drivers do not feel are safe. The reasons for this being the equipment on the trains (primarily the 377s I think that are on the coastway routes), the nature of the stations on the platform (ie no staff, shape of platform etc).

One would assume that this means that total repsonsibility for any accident on these stations would then fall squarely on the shoulders of the driver and they are not happy about it.

Where the drivers feel it is safe, they have signed off on it. The roll out appears to be totally imposed without any proper consuation with those at the sharp end of it. This is the result.

OK, that sounds reasonable enough. why aren't the union publicising this, rather than trite rhetoric? we can see there's many lines with DOO in place and i certainly expect the stations to be equipped for DOO before the DOO goes live. but then again as i understand it the newer trains the equipment come on the train so no need for platform side equipment. if that's the case, is this a matter of poor relations and not "involving the union"? if they presented their case in a clear manner, they might find they gain support, as it is they act like and are seen as 1970's throwbacks.

and re the GTR court case, thats a comical attempt to stop the strikes, clearly GTR has no sensible grounds.

 

[coagulantwolf]

Not sure where in Worthing you are but last week I got a train to Arundel and then a cab. Was only £17.

I'm in Findon...but £17 from Arundel to Worthing seems fairly reasonable! Will keep in mind if all else fails, thanks.

 

[Ernest]

For a start I didn't suggest replacing any drivers.

But if you want to pretend that learning to drive a train takes 2 years longer than learning to be a vet then you crack on in that fantasy world of yours and don't let me stop you.

Talk about something you know not about something you don't as it makes you look stupid.

 

[coagulantwolf]

View attachment 80134

Utterly beggars belief!

So they want you to go from Shoreham - Havant - Guildford - Gatwick - Brighton.

What a journey.

 

[Simster]

Talk about something you know not about something you don't as it makes you look stupid.

You obviously know a fair bit about it - how long does it actually take to train a train driver from recruitment to first unminded drive?

 

[bhanutz]

Talk about something you know not about something you don't as it makes you look stupid.

People in glass houses.....

 

[bhanutz]

You obviously know a fair bit about it - how long does it actually take to train a train driver from recruitment to first unminded drive?

Are you asking for the Unions version or the more realistic version?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Every few pages someone clueless comes up with this suggestion.

And every few pages some smarmy know all comes up with this tosh. The drivers are only supporting their RMT colleagues cos they feel a bit brave right now as one union is already in dispute, all for one and one for all and all that. Sack the conductors and replace them far more quickly than drivers, drivers go back to work as they get ALL the blame now etc etc.....

Then after that the new drivers would join aslef as they would need protection.

And what the hell does that mean?

 

[Napper]

am I going to have any problems?

QUOTE]

would say almost certainly unless you are very lucky.

Even if you can aim for the 2nd to last back then you may save yourself a lot of grief / potential bus journey back.

From my experience.

 

[Buzzer]

Talk about something you know not about something you don't as it makes you look stupid.

Ernest rule of debating rule 1: if unable to offer any counter argument, call the other person stupid.

 

[Simster]

Are you asking for the Unions version or the more realistic version?

I'm asking for [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION]'s opinion, which I accept will be bias to a degree, but the answer to which would help me formulate an opinion. But equally, what I do know is that insisting someone looks stupid for suggesting it shouldn't take longer to train a driver as it does to train a qualified vet doesn't actually put the unions in a good light. Anyone might think they too are taking the piss. So I'd rather have answers...

The thing is, I'm very much on the fence with regards the striking unions. I find it deeply worrying that the unions are getting slaughtered to an unfair degree when this train company were an absolute DISGRACE long before the strikes took affect. For example, my morning service was cancelled 14 times in 12 weeks this time last year. Nothing to do with the unions at all. Why isn't the company being held to account? At least the unions are forgoing pay when they make their decision to strike. Their contempt for the suffering passenger at least comes at a personal cost. You couldn't say that for the absolute morons running the company, who continue to get away with murder thanks to a gutless government.

 

[Ernest]

You obviously know a fair bit about it - how long does it actually take to train a train driver from recruitment to first unminded drive?

It depends on what depot they are at, but a starter driver at Brighton who would drive Brighton to Ore , Brighton to Haywards Heath & Brighton to Littlehampton would take roughly 2 years from leaving the job centre to be able to do that fully passed out. Problem is that there are not enough Driver Instructors to ensure that can do their route learning and accompanied hours in the cab so may take a lot longer. It's the next step learning to London, Portsmouth/Southampton etc that is hard as they cannot learn the routes as nobody to cover their booked duties whilst they do so.
This has been going on for years, not a new thing. Simply not enough drivers to do what they have to do.

 

[e77]

Have to get up to London on Wednesday for midday. Booked the National Express coach to Victoria.

 

[ROSM]

That's all fine by me. So it takes a year to get in place enough drivers who are willing to work. I can live with that if it means that we finally see an end to this current debacle.

The low pass rate is irrelevant if there are lots applying for each position. Let's get the ball rolling now.

They've had 4 years to get the ball rolling and 2 years since the first emergency timetables due to staff shortages in Dec 2014. They didn't act then and won't act now.

 

[Simster]

It depends on what depot they are at, but a starter driver at Brighton who would drive Brighton to Ore , Brighton to Haywards Heath & Brighton to Littlehampton would take roughly 2 years from leaving the job centre to be able to do that fully passed out. Problem is that there are not enough Driver Instructors to ensure that can do their route learning and accompanied hours in the cab so may take a lot longer. It's the next step learning to London, Portsmouth/Southampton etc that is hard as they cannot learn the routes as nobody to cover their booked duties whilst they do so.
This has been going on for years, not a new thing. Simply not enough drivers to do what they have to do.

OK, cheers.

 

[Chicken Run]

Every few pages someone clueless comes up with this suggestion.

Ok let's say they do this. It will take a year to train the drivers(if they had enough teachers,rooms etc)it takes a driver to teach a driver. You then need to learn routes this is done in stages as there are too many to learn in one go( they have found more f*ck up when trying to do too much too soon) this will take another year maybe longer once again you need an experienced driver to teach the routes.

Only one in five pass the assement it takes them 3 months from when you apply to even get the interview.

Then after that the new drivers would join aslef as they would need protection.

So in a nutshell the unions have the franchises over a barrel then?