New Striker - Tony Bloom

[nwgull]

As you say Piltdown Man, FFP is a reality and I totally trust Tony Bloom to be doing the right thing and if that's keeping hold of the purse strings then fair enough.

However, I hope someone can help me as I am struggling to really understand how FFP works - i think it was in the programme on Saturday (or it may have been in the Argus match report yesterday come to think of it) where Forest were referred to along the lines of 'being a financial powerhouse in the Skybet Championship'. I cannot get my head around this term although by looking at their starting line-up then it's fairly obvious they have been splashing some serious cash. Surely, their financial 'power' must be linked to their revenue?

Given our attendances, pricing and the various ways in which we've been 'maximising revenues' since Paul Barber joined (I have no beef with him BTW) then how can Forest have so much more money to spend than us on their squad I think it's fair to say we do have a mid-table playing budget when you look at teams like Forest and Leicester etc but surely our revenue isn't mid table is it? Or am i missing something in how FFP works.

Genuine question which I hope is clear and someone can answer for me as it's bloody annoying seeing our club with huge gates every week, more merchandise on view around town than I ever dreamed possible and a suite of hospitality boxes sold out but us still having a relatively modest playing budget in comparison to the forest's of this world. Is it simply that Forest aren't complying with the FFP rules or something else I'm missing?

Correct. Forest aren't complying with FFP. Their owners have done sponsorship deal worth 12m with the 'Fawaz refrigeration company', who are owned by the same family. This is a clear breach of the FFP fair value rule regarding sponsorship - we probably get less than 1m a year from Amex. To give an idea of how much of an advantage that 12m gives, our total annual ticket revenue for an average crowd of 26k per game will be in the order of 10-11m.

We have to hope that the league implements the rules, fines and transfer embargoes rigorously.

 

[KZNSeagull]

As you say Piltdown Man, FFP is a reality and I totally trust Tony Bloom to be doing the right thing and if that's keeping hold of the purse strings then fair enough.

However, I hope someone can help me as I am struggling to really understand how FFP works - i think it was in the programme on Saturday (or it may have been in the Argus match report yesterday come to think of it) where Forest were referred to along the lines of 'being a financial powerhouse in the Skybet Championship'. I cannot get my head around this term although by looking at their starting line-up then it's fairly obvious they have been splashing some serious cash. Surely, their financial 'power' must be linked to their revenue?

Given our attendances, pricing and the various ways in which we've been 'maximising revenues' since Paul Barber joined (I have no beef with him BTW) then how can Forest have so much more money to spend than us on their squad I think it's fair to say we do have a mid-table playing budget when you look at teams like Forest and Leicester etc but surely our revenue isn't mid table is it? Or am i missing something in how FFP works.

Genuine question which I hope is clear and someone can answer for me as it's bloody annoying seeing our club with huge gates every week, more merchandise on view around town than I ever dreamed possible and a suite of hospitality boxes sold out but us still having a relatively modest playing budget in comparison to the forest's of this world. Is it simply that Forest aren't complying with the FFP rules or something else I'm missing?

Essentially, FFP means that you can make an "acceptable" loss of up to 8m this year, 6m next and 5m every year thereafter. Clubs can either adhere to it or ignore it. If you ignore it and get promoted, you will be fined. If you ignore and are not promoted, you get a transfer embargo imposed. The fines are shared between those clubs that do adhere to the rules. The fines are punitive (last time QPR were promoted, they made a loss of 25m - if they do that this year and are promoted, they will be fined somewhere in the region of 15m).

Whether Forest are playing by the rules or not, we do not know yet. But I doubt it. But that is up to them.

 

[Kumquat]

I think it's been said before, but Ben Drew is not the answer. Great singer but he isn't even a great actor let alone footballer.

 

[Springal]

Essentially, FFP means that you can make an "acceptable" loss of up to 8m this year, 6m next and 5m every year thereafter. Clubs can either adhere to it or ignore it. If you ignore it and get promoted, you will be fined. If you ignore and are not promoted, you get a transfer embargo imposed. The fines are shared between those clubs that do adhere to the rules. The fines are punitive (last time QPR were promoted, they made a loss of 25m - if they do that this year and are promoted, they will be fined somewhere in the region of 15m).

Whether Forest are playing by the rules or not, we do not know yet. But I doubt it. But that is up to them.

Is your FFP loss figure not compared to your income/revenue ? Rather than a set figure?

 

[KZNSeagull]

Is your FFP loss figure not compared to your income/revenue ? Rather than a set figure?

Nope. Each club can make an acceptable loss of 8, 6 and 5m. So if you have a rich chairman, that is the maximum per year he can put into the club under the rules to cover losses.

 

[Telford Seagull]

Wasn't it reported that he said we would have 1 striker by today and another by thursday?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

how can this be with the crowds we get and the franchises in place ?

If you plan BIG you have to be prepared to spend BIG. A new stadium still has everyday maintenance costs to be factored in. If you take a visit to The Amex on a non matchday it is still a hive of activity and lots of jobs are going on to keep it spick and span. When I used to take the collection money for the club lottery over to The Goldstone you never saw many people about and a treat would be to see Frankie Howard with a lawn mower mowing the hallowed turf.

 

[Kumquat]

Wasn't it reported that he said we would have 1 striker by today and another by thursday?

I think it was reported that he would have one striker by close of the international break and possibly another player (not necessarily a striker). Hope fully the latter is the Championship's Mesut Ozil, whoever that may be...

 

[KZNSeagull]

If you plan BIG you have to be prepared to spend BIG. A new stadium still has everyday maintenance costs to be factored in. If you take a visit to The Amex on a non matchday it is still a hive of activity and lots of jobs are going on to keep it spick and span. When I used to take the collection money for the club lottery over to The Goldstone you never saw many people about and a treat would be to see Frankie Howard with a lawn mower mowing the hallowed turf.

Indeed. We have been overspending on the peripheral activities and club admin stuff etc (ie, the non-playing side of the club). Essentially, it is PB's job to try to cut this down where it is not essential, and to increase our revenue where it is, if that makes sense, so that as much as possible can be allocated to the playing side of things.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Wasn't it reported that he said we would have 1 striker by today and another by thursday?

I'm not sure how accurate Ninja Elephant has been in the past.

http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?288178-Apostolos-Vellios-Everton-striker-aged-21

 

[Greavsey]

The fines are punitive (last time QPR were promoted, they made a loss of 25m - if they do that this year and are promoted, they will be fined somewhere in the region of 15m).

Whether Forest are playing by the rules or not, we do not know yet. But I doubt it. But that is up to them.

This is what I don't 'get' with FFP, and I suppose playing Devils Advocate, as I'm not one that says we should be risking everything for the Premier League. BUT surely a £15mm fine pales into insignificance against the reported £120mm per annum that can be earned for promotion to the Premier League - and can be viewed as an acceptable loss by a club like Forest? So, why are we taking the moral high ground?

 

[Gritt23]

You do realise that he would have been ASKED about FFP's impact on a search for a new striker, right?

Yeah, fair point, but it's not a Newsnight interview trying to force answers out of him, it's a cozy Daybreak type interview with the local rag. He could very easily have just dismissed any questions about FFP, with "I've made that position clear enough times already." Something dismissive that they would not use. let's be honest the Chairman doing an "interview" with the local paper is pretty close to releasing a statement, as they wouldn't publish anything he doesn't want them to use for fear of not getting access to him next time.

As has been said by someone else, anyone who doesn't understand that FFP is having an effect on our spending by now, will just continue to ignore it anyway.

 

[backson]

FFP, FFP, FFP, FFP, FFP, FFP, FFP, FFP, FFP, FFP, FFP

That just sounds like you're blowing a massive raspberry

 

[Chesney Christ]

Correct. Forest aren't complying with FFP. Their owners have done sponsorship deal worth 12m with the 'Fawaz refrigeration company', who are owned by the same family. This is a clear breach of the FFP fair value rule regarding sponsorship

So why haven't Forest been punished for this??!

 

[Chesney Christ]

Essentially, FFP means that you can make an "acceptable" loss of up to 8m this year, 6m next and 5m every year thereafter. Clubs can either adhere to it or ignore it. If you ignore it and get promoted, you will be fined. If you ignore and are not promoted, you get a transfer embargo imposed.

Why do you not get a transfer embargo imposed if you are promoted?

 

[Colossal Squid]

Well I think it's all rather positive. The man is stating we WILL have at least one new forward in before our next game. This is a man of his word, and also a man who's in charge of things. If Tony says it's happening then I believe it's happening

 

[Creaky]

So why haven't Forest been punished for this??!

Two factors - first this seasons financial accounts won't be presented for scrutiny until December next year and secondly when they are, a view will then be taken as to whether the sponsorship amount was a 'commercially viable" figure.

 

[KZNSeagull]

This is what I don't 'get' with FFP, and I suppose playing Devils Advocate, as I'm not one that says we should be risking everything for the Premier League. BUT surely a £15mm fine pales into insignificance against the reported £120mm per annum that can be earned for promotion to the Premier League - and can be viewed as an acceptable loss by a club like Forest? So, why are we taking the moral high ground?

It can be viewed like that, if you want to take the risk. But can they, or us for that matter, live with a transfer embargo if they don't get promoted? (assuming that the transfer embargo is a properly enforced one ie no-one in until they can prove that they are back within FFP limits), whilst those that have played by the rules have been given free cash by those that got promoted and did not play by the rules. It isn't perfect by any means, but FFP properly enforced will at least give some reward to those clubs that don't want to cheat.

I keep repeating this as well, but the other thing to remember is that TB wants the club to be self-financing (up to a 5m loss per year). He is not prepared to take the gamble and spend all in the hope of promotion.

But we are not taking the moral high ground - we are playing by the rules as agreed by the Football League clubs.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Why do you not get a transfer embargo imposed if you are promoted?

Watford had a transfer embargo, which they managed to wriggle around. It doesn't mean you can't get transfers but that they have to seek permission from the Football League. Whether that also applies to the Premier League, I don't know?

 

[KZNSeagull]

Why do you not get a transfer embargo imposed if you are promoted?

I guess because you are now in the Premier League, who have a different set of FFP rules - you are no longer subject to the rules of the Football League. League 1&2 have different rules as well.

And Forest have yet to be punished because it has not been proven - the accounts are not lodged until December 2014 for this season.