miners may they rest in peace

[London Calling]

Like all wars and battles, skirmishes take place. Cortonwood was that skirmish.

Whether the Union could poltically not have backed then? I agree they probably couldn"t. Whether an all out strike was the best cause of action at that time of year, I do doubt. The NUM should have drawn matters out into the summer.

Whilst I won't disagree with the collective leadership. The NUM leadership I would say had all the approaches of Stalinism. The core of this leadership was Yorkshire, the Regional Branch members, I believe, put their own career and ego's first and not their members interests.

Without knowing any of this level of leadership personally, did they really agree with the tactics of 1984? Or, Did they just scratch each other backs or were they so far up their collective backsides they just did not realise what was really going to happen over that 12 months and beyond.

Did they really believe that the Government would go through the colliery closure programme?

I will disagree with the NACODS scenario. They went out on strike for the same reasons as the NUM. Whilst the Deputies were out, the NUM did not even had to go on strike. Macgregor offered the NACODS a ( and would have had to offer the NUM the same) good deal. But the offering met the NACODS demands and also the NUM's. THe NUM sadly wanted more. The NUM leadership did not realise that it had won this battle.

The rest I think between ourselves we have perfectly summed up one of the worst 3 years of UK modern history.

LC

 

[On the Left Wing]

One side perspective - as I posted earlier in this thread I lived in Barnsley (well Darton actually - a pit village 5 miles from the town centre) from 1979 to 1984. Most people I knew were either miners or had miners in their family.

For the most part Yorkshire miners treated Scargill as a god and would have gone to the ends of the Earth for him (as many did). But many of those at Woolley Colliery - where Scargill worked - had differing views of him: "work shy" "a slacker" and "too wrapped up in himself". I'm not saying I agree with these comments, but they were genuine things said about him at the time.

That said, the man was politically driven and had his eyes on a wider socialist Britain, and as I have already said, although his tactics may have been wrong and self-destructive, his claims were proved to be right ... and families are still struggling with the legacy of Thatcher's brutal decimation of the mining industry.

 

[London Irish]

Losses at UK Coal ballooned in 2004 after geological problems, mechanical breakdowns and workplace disputes led to a poor operational performance, the group said yesterday.

As a result, UK Coal has cut its full-year dividend from 10p to 6p.

Turnover at UK Coal fell to £442.9m last year, from £563.9m, reflecting the lower coal production at the group's underground and surface mines.

UK Coal, which owns most of the UK's remaining coal mines, has not yet benefited from the steep rise in world coal prices as it is bound by long-term supply contracts.

Gerry Spindler, who took over as chief executive following the ousting of Gordon McPhie last September, said the contracts would be renegotiated over the next two years to take advantage of the higher prices.

Pre-tax losses rose from £1.2m in 2003 to £51.6m last year. This included £29.8m of exceptional charges, such as costs relating to the closure of UK Coal's Ellington pit in north-east England.

Mr Spindler said several changes had already taken place at the company, such as the introduction of continuous operations at the Harworth and Wellbeck collieries. He predicted that the group would be back in profit by 2006.

UK Coal shares fell 15½p to 117p.

 

[3gulls]

Clearly anyone that disagrees with your almighty opinion is wrong. I think you'll find its a matter of opinion and for you to call me ignorant is incredibly arrogant, I would never label you as ignorant.

Go on, you know that you want to. Call Bog Irish what you like!

 

[3gulls]

One side perspective - as I posted earlier in this thread I lived in Barnsley (well Darton actually - a pit village 5 miles from the town centre) from 1979 to 1984. Most people I knew were either miners or had miners in their family.

Did you get to eat 'ovis and reeeel buuter, have clogs on yer feet, and piss in a back yard toilet?

In your northern slums......

 

[London Calling]

Losses at UK Coal ballooned in 2004 after geological problems, mechanical breakdowns and workplace disputes led to a poor operational performance, the group said yesterday.

As a result, UK Coal has cut its full-year dividend from 10p to 6p.

Turnover at UK Coal fell to £442.9m last year, from £563.9m, reflecting the lower coal production at the group's underground and surface mines.

UK Coal, which owns most of the UK's remaining coal mines, has not yet benefited from the steep rise in world coal prices as it is bound by long-term supply contracts.

Gerry Spindler, who took over as chief executive following the ousting of Gordon McPhie last September, said the contracts would be renegotiated over the next two years to take advantage of the higher prices.

Pre-tax losses rose from £1.2m in 2003 to £51.6m last year. This included £29.8m of exceptional charges, such as costs relating to the closure of UK Coal's Ellington pit in north-east England.

Mr Spindler said several changes had already taken place at the company, such as the introduction of continuous operations at the Harworth and Wellbeck collieries. He predicted that the group would be back in profit by 2006.

UK Coal shares fell 151/2p to 117p.

What that doesn't report is the money they will continue to make from the redevelopment of the old colliery land. Already industrial estates are being developed.

The great Selby coalfield already has plans for new developments.

And of course Budgies (UK Coal) got the whole industry for £100m. Plus there has been extra costs over the last year as they have closed large parts of Selby down.( Miners at this time have been paid great overtime rates and infrastructure costs). But UK now has large stock piles of coal and is producing coal cheaper than any one else. The cash tills will be rolling for the City firms and banks, all of whom have good shares in UK Coal.

 

[On the Left Wing]

Did you get to eat 'ovis and reeeel buuter, have clogs on yer feet, and piss in a back yard toilet?

In your northern slums......

Missed out on the clogs ... but lived in a two up and two down terrace for 2 years with a bog in the back yard!

Also lived on pie and peas and Barnsley chops!

And had to wash my jumpers every week cos the coal dust in the air would turn them grey!

.... back under tarpaulin to lick road clean ...


Worst memory was in 1981 watching Brighton lose 4-1 to Barnsely in the League Cup - we were a top flight team then and we even scored first!!! Had to go to work the next day and try to hide!

 

[Yorkie]

One side perspective - as I posted earlier in this thread I lived in Barnsley (well Darton actually - a pit village 5 miles from the town centre) from 1979 to 1984. Most people I knew were either miners or had miners in their family.

For the most part Yorkshire miners treated Scargill as a god and would have gone to the ends of the Earth for him (as many did). But many of those at Woolley Colliery - where Scargill worked - had differing views of him: "work shy" "a slacker" and "too wrapped up in himself". I'm not saying I agree with these comments, but they were genuine things said about him at the time.

That said, the man was politically driven and had his eyes on a wider socialist Britain, and as I have already said, although his tactics may have been wrong and self-destructive, his claims were proved to be right .

A very accurate desciption .

But the miners weren't the only ones. As I said earlier exactly the same thing happened to the steel industry. Cheap Spanish steel was being imported. The unions handled things a lot differently and the men got their redundancy packages and some regeneration was able to be put into place straightaway ie Meadowhall.

 

[rool]

LC

I think you'll find that the last pararagh of enigma's post was directed at London Irish although I had to read it twice before realising that.

 

[enigma]

Londons Calling that insult was not directed at you, it was directed at the failed hack for his arrogance. I must apologise for any misunderstanding. I would not call someone that for no reason.Please accept my apologies

 

[enigma]

I'll say it again- I do not deny anything that I have said, merely that it was a little strong on reflection. I can handle criticism of my argument, unlike you I'm not arrogant and can frequently accept when I'm wrong.

I have always been taught to accept other points of view even if I do not agree with them.If you notice, I have not sought to argue with anybody else, just you and your patronising manner. Have fun writing for whichever local rag it is you write for.

 

[Curious Orange]

they where all losing money, coal is a bad energy! but hey, lets keep them all open because some whole communities keep them as the centre of their unity.

pah!

move with the times NORTHERNERS.


Call centres get closed down to move away for cost and becasue communities arent silly enough to base emselves around a call centre, there isnt mass hysteria.

Scargill.....socialist prick.


queue mass angry flamers: do ya best:

It wasn't just northerners though. Kent and South Wales were badly affected too. I was at University in Pontypridd barely six years ago, and the communities there are still trying to recover all these years later. Only the Tower Colliery remained when I was there, and the first coal train of the day used to wake me up at 5.30am every day!!

The miners pushed too much, and that broke the industry, which is a pity as the coal in this country is better quality than a lot of the cheap imported stuff.

 

[London Irish]

I have always been taught to accept other points of view even if I do not agree with them.

I only principally objected to one thing you said, which was that you couldn't "give a toss" about the miners' suffering. That went too far. I still haven't a clue whether or not you stand by that statement, because although you seem comfortable with the general concept of being "frequently" wrong in arguments, you don't appear to have concretely applied it to that remark.

 

[Hunting 784561]

In summary :

* Scargill was undoubtedly politically motivated

* Thatcher wanted revenge for the fall of the Heath government

* Scargill picked on a much touger enemy than him and picked the wrong fight on the wrong ground

* Ergo - Scargill lost.

* IMHO Scargill should shoulder the blame for the thousands of job losses. He got it badly wrong.

Its no point getting sentimental about industry. It comes and it goes. The lesson to be learnt is retraining people to adapt to new industries when they emerge, and being able to discard the old ones when they become inefficient or die. Unfortunately Scargill was happy to use working class mining communities as his own blunt political instrument.

 

[London Irish]

IMHO Scargill should shoulder the blame for the thousands of job losses. He got it badly wrong.

So, in summary, a union leader who fought against the closing of the pits is to blame for the closing the pits. The ACTUAL people who closed the pits, the Coal Board and the Tory government, are not to blame for the closing of the pits.

As an example of Orwellian doublethink, I don't think that can be matched.

 

[London Irish]

I don't believe it. While I was just typing that message, Michael Heseltine just walked straight past my desk

 

[On the Left Wing]

I don't believe it. While I was just typing that message, Michael Heseltine just walked straight past my desk

That serves you for working for the Tory Party ... you right wing mole!!!!

 

[Dover]

LI. Please do us a favour. Can you tell us if Hesseltine wears a rug!

 

[On the Left Wing]

I don't believe it. While I was just typing that message, Michael Heseltine just walked straight past my desk

Back in 1996 when I was still working at The Scotsman ... the Prince of Darkness Peter Mandleson suddenly walked into my office one afternoon!!! Scarey!!!

 

[London Irish]

LI. Please do us a favour. Can you tell us if Hesseltine wears a rug!

Well, I could have told you if I'd put Plan A into action: rugby-tackling him to the ground, pummelling him with my fists once for every pit he'd helped shut down and then finally ending it all by shoving a sharp biro right up his nose and skewering his foppish cranium.

But on reflection, Plan B was mobilised, of harrumphing a bit in his general direction and pissing off to the canteen until the royal tour with the editor was over.