[Travel] Mill Road P&R Chaos

[Brovion]

Because a bus transports dozens of people by itself, a train hundreds of people. To get the same amount of people there by driving results in far more carbon emissions than using a hybrid bus or the trains.

Busses and trains are far less polluting than transporting that many people by car.

Yes, agreed, but you've missed the point - the people who use the Park and Ride sites have already driven! So if they've already got in their cars and driven to Brighton then the environmental damage is already done. Forcing them onto buses rather than letting them walk simply compounds the damage and cannot be described as 'sustainable'.

 

[abc]

There is clearly a massive problem building and the club are ignoring it. I don’t know how one goes about this sort of thing, but is it time for a petition campaign, perhaps involving the Argus too, to get the club to take some action (or at least recognise the concerns and open a dialogue)? After all, there is no such thing as ‘free’ travel concessions as we pay for these in our season tickets.
I don’t like the thought of fighting the club (ie Tony Bloom) on anything but I equally don’t want to be pushed into giving up my ST or see thousands do the same.

 

[Guinness Boy]

It's not the platform at Falmer that's the issue, it's the platform at Lewes.

The platforms at Falmer have already been lenghtend from 6 coaches when the Amex opened to 8 coaches, the problem is you have to then get them back to Brighton. You can't do that at Lewes as you'd block the line towards Eastbourne/Seaford and that would also block the line up towards London.

From memory the Thameslink stock is cleared for the route towards Lewes but then I don't think they are cleared down to Seaford and as far as I'm aware the drivers don't know that route either so that's that out the question. Then there is the longstanding issue of power on the Seaford branch, there is a restriction of 8 coaches of Southern stock as anything longer draws too much power and the substations can't handle it, no idea how power hungry the Thameslinks are.

Another solution could be a bay platform at Falmer but then it comes down to cost and Network Rail aren't going to pay for something that expensive so it would fall on the club to do it, that's before we even get to the subject of space, which I don't think there is (I've not been down that way for a couple of years).

Lack of coaches is an ongoing issue post Covid, most trains on the busier (London) routes have been lengthened to aid social distancing so the spare units just aren't available at weekends any more to strengthen the Coastway West services when the focus (rightly or wrongly) is bolstering Brighton to Lewes. We've also lost the 5 car trains that used to pop down from London at the weekends due to the 455 metro units being sent for scrap so that also makes a difference.

To answer another specific point, that I've forgotten to quote, extra coaches always equals extra cost, for every train that runs on the network the operating company has to pay a track access charge, longer trains take more power to run and add extra wear to the infrastructure so someone has to pay for it.

Hang on. In one bit you said busier trains have been lengthened for social distancing. Then in another that lengthening trains comes with running costs. I doubt there was any busier train that weekend than Brighton to Southampton, which was standing by Portslade with zero social distancing. So wouldn’t reallocating that stock to three of those trains there and back have wiped its face, cost wise, and done a better job of SD?

 

[Stat Brother]

There is clearly a massive problem building and the club are ignoring it. I don’t know how one goes about this sort of thing, but is it time for a petition campaign, perhaps involving the Argus too, to get the club to take some action (or at least recognise the concerns and open a dialogue)? After all, there is no such thing as ‘free’ travel concessions as we pay for these in our season tickets.
I don’t like the thought of fighting the club (ie Tony Bloom) on anything but I equally don’t want to be pushed into giving up my ST or see thousands do the same.

Empty seats is the only way the club will take action, let's be honest that ain't happening any time soon.

Mr Bloom would absolutely love for me to give up our season tickets.
The thought of trading us in for 'shop spending shirt buying' tourists must be orgasmic.

They don't care if the tourists have trouble leaving as they won't be back, they just care that they leave with full shopping bags.

 

[Falmer Flutter ©]

That's me done with the P&R until they put on more buses. Left on the final whistle, joined the queue just before the bottom of the steps, took more than an hour to get back to the car from there. The queue behind us snaked right back round the stadium. God knows how long it took to clear. We come down from London and 9 times out of 10 will get the train, but sometimes we have to drive. Will either park in Lewes from now on and get the train from there or just not bother. Never thought I'd ever say that.

 

[southstandandy]

Next time we sell a player and make a few quid, I think we should invest it in one of these transporter devices like Star Trek :



A few key hubs around the county and hey presto your at the ground in a matter of seconds!

 

[portlock seagull]

I wouldn't expect a Christmas card from Friends of the Earth this year if l were you.

 

[el punal]

Not P&R but I actually emailed Paul Barber for the first time yesterday about Southerns performance - 4 carriage trains only and only 2 services an hour on the West Coastway.

I acknowledged and accept the club have little power, they at least have a commercial arrangement with Southern given they apparently pay them part of the ‘travel subsidy’ so might have some lines of communication to them. But I was told I needed to take it up with Southern myself

The stadium was built based on a sustainable travel plan but based on what’s being provided I don’t see how the club are keeping up its side of the bargain.

Unfortunately, I don’t think the club have any influence over Southern regarding West Coastway as it is not a direct connection to Falmer. I travel to watch the Albion home games on Southern trains from Southampton. On Saturdays you can be sure of the following :

1. It will only be a 4 coach service.

2. All seats will be taken by the time it leaves Chichester.

3. It will be rammed by the time it leaves Worthing.

4. From there onto Brighton the chances of anyone attempting to board is minimal.

I had a conversation with a Southern driver (who ironically drove the train for our previous home game) regarding the above points. He stated that there was absolutely no reason for Southern not to attach an additional 4 coaches. He also said it made no difference in performance of driving the train and that extra coaches were available en route and easily accessible.

Southern management seem to lack any foresight when it comes to their operation strategy. The perfect case in point is my chosen train for a Saturday home fixture at 3.00 pm. I catch the 10.28 am train from Southampton. As the destination is Brighton you can bet on large contingents of the following groups of passengers - football fans, day trippers, hen parties, stag parties, race goers ((Goodwood/Fontwell), and some en route to Gatwick Airport.

If I, as a humble passenger, can see the overcrowding problem on this route as a regular occurrence then why can’t someone in authority at Southern recognise and resolve the problem?

Oh, and don’t get me started on the return journey from Brighton to Southampton - that really is pot luck if you get a normal service.

 

[jackalbion]

But you would think the club would have more clout than the punters. Its all very well Barber / BHA washing their hands of it in a "not my problem guv" kind of way. But when the ST renewals start to diminish because of the increasing ballache it is becoming getting to and from the Amex, then perhaps they'll have to have a chinstroke.

I've had a ST for as long as I can remember, and have absolutely loved the journey I've been on with this club, its a massive part of my life. But when you live relatively locally, and you're still routinely having to slap 1.5-2 hours on either side of the game, with the majority of that time spent standing around like cattle chewing cud, then there's going to be a "hang on...." moment for a lot of fans. I'm getting close to that point.

I agree but having a bit of knowledge of the rail situation, the number of units available for that West Coastway line is minimal, and anything additional is being put on Brighton - Falmer - Lewes on a matchday. The 313s are literally falling to pieces and about 9 of them are out of service with them being retired next year. The DFT don't seem to be interested sending anything down to replace them, so I can't see that side of the coast improving anytime soon. I agree, the club could do more, to make people want to renew, but to put extra services on the West Coastway is something I don't think they have much control or influence of, and they'll have to look at other options. I personally don't think the service is that bad, I always leave town after the pub at about 1.30 - 2 before a game and we've never missed kick off. I do stay behind post-match however every week and have a few pints and gently stroll onto an empty train around six O'clock so never have any problems.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

But you would think the club would have more clout than the punters. Its all very well Barber / BHA washing their hands of it in a "not my problem guv" kind of way. But when the ST renewals start to diminish because of the increasing ballache it is becoming getting to and from the Amex, then perhaps they'll have to have a chinstroke.

I've had a ST for as long as I can remember, and have absolutely loved the journey I've been on with this club, its a massive part of my life. But when you live relatively locally, and you're still routinely having to slap 1.5-2 hours on either side of the game, with the majority of that time spent standing around like cattle chewing cud, then there's going to be a "hang on...." moment for a lot of fans. I'm getting close to that point.

My views exactly

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Someone's not read #18!!!

The other advantage, as is always the advantage with cycling anywhere, is time.
Whatever time you want to arrive at t'AMEX you can.
You're not constrained P&R being full and lengthy queues.

On Sunday I arrived at 13:30, queued for a coffee and took my seat at 13:40.
Final whistle (no player applause) then at Mill Road BP 40 mins later.


The cycle path up from Brighton ought to look like old skool newsreel of rush hour in Beijing but it doesn't.
I'd suggest if it did those who need to use 'public transport' would find the experience considerably more agreeable - but hey that's the same for all the UK car centric transport woes so I'll not be expecting change any time soon.

That is fine if you don’t live a heck of a long way from the ground. It’s impractical cycling from mile oak as it will take ages, it’s up and down hills and of course cycling is great when it’s not pissing down or windy like now.

 

[portslade seagull]

Just like to add that me and my son stayed behind and watched most of the 1st half of the Fulham game. We then joined the Mill Hill queue which was still near the walkway around the stadium. It then took another 1+ just to get on a bus.
As others have said when dry not an issue but when pissing down there are going to be some mightily peeved supporters.
PB this needs looking at

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I mailed PB from the queue yesterday at the request of 2 of my family, who are new STH. They can’t believe how poor the Mill Rd service is, and that it takes more than 90 mins to get back to the car - it’s ludicrous that it’s longer than the match itself.

PB graciously replied and though I won’t go into the details, it’s clear that he gets a lot of complaints about this and it irks him.
My slight confusion in his response though was that the club are ‘not responsible’ for transport to and from matches.
Now, I understand literally what he is saying… but surely the club has a contract of sorts with the service providers? The service has always been a little poor, but it was bearable - now though it has become EXTREMELY poor, and quite frankly a really terrible customer /supporter service.

Aren’t such terms negotiable or at least up for discussion?

He added that there is also a shortage of drivers and buses across the south of England too.

Basically the same answer I got some time ago.

BUT - If the club are claiming 'free travel is included in your ST/Match ticket' then they clearly DO have responsibility for transport.

If they had no responsibility they wouldn't be laying on P&R / 'free' train travel.

It's time to sit down and discuss, rather than the 'not my problem' attitude that PB (who I greatly respect and think we are lucky to have) currently takes.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I mailed PB from the queue yesterday at the request of 2 of my family, who are new STH. They can’t believe how poor the Mill Rd service is, and that it takes more than 90 mins to get back to the car - it’s ludicrous that it’s longer than the match itself.

PB graciously replied and though I won’t go into the details, it’s clear that he gets a lot of complaints about this and it irks him.
My slight confusion in his response though was that the club are ‘not responsible’ for transport to and from matches.
Now, I understand literally what he is saying… but surely the club has a contract of sorts with the service providers? The service has always been a little poor, but it was bearable - now though it has become EXTREMELY poor, and quite frankly a really terrible customer /supporter service.

Aren’t such terms negotiable or at least up for discussion?

He added that there is also a shortage of drivers and buses across the south of England too.

I understand why he might try and claim he is not responsbile but he is certainly accountable.

 

[amexer]

Would certainly pee me off if I emailed PB and he told me to contact them myself as is nothing to do with them. Surely clubs original contract with Southern stated clearly what club needed before and after game
Games are selling out so mayb the club are just happy to sell all these match day tickets. They could have a shock at renewal time. All I would like hear is that club are concerned with situation and are trying to make improvements. I fear that PBs answer is get there earlier and leave later.

 

[Bozza]

That is fine if you don’t live a heck of a long way from the ground. It’s impractical cycling from mile oak as it will take ages, it’s up and down hills and of course cycling is great when it’s not pissing down or windy like now.

I imagine @Stat Brother is composing a reply right now, but cycling would surely be the quickest way of getting to and from the game, wouldn't it?

It must be something like 7-8 miles from Mile Oak to the Amex, and unlike buses, trains and the Park & Ride - you are the master of your own destiny for the whole journey. You'll know exactly how long it will take so can leave home to arrive just before kick-off and, as soon as the game ends, you'll be on your way and back home long before anyone making the same journey on any other kind of transport.

Cycling isn't for everyone, granted, and I completely understand that cycling to a game in shitty weather is no fun at all. But, taking the weather out of the equation, I think it would be the quickest way to get to a game from where you are.

Even from Worthing, cycling may well be quicker than any other method of transport. Driving and using The Bridge on Sunday, I got home around 6pm - two hours after the game finished. I'm sure I could have ridden home in less time than that.

 

[Stat Brother]

That is fine if you don’t live a heck of a long way from the ground. It’s impractical cycling from mile oak as it will take ages, it’s up and down hills and of course cycling is great when it’s not pissing down or windy like now.

It wasn't raining on Sunday, in fact it was glorious cycling weather.
I come from 30+ miles away, cycling the last 3 or so, when not using MR or the train, which is my preferred Sat 3pm mode of transport

@Bozza has covered most of my points.


In a crowd of 28,000 home fans, Id say no more than 500 thought cycling to the ground was an option.
Most of the remaining 27,500 either left early or late and left frustrated.
All of the 500 cyclists as happy as the could be after such a result.

I'm not saying cycling is for everyone, far from it.
But every single other mode of transport becomes x times better if those that can do, no different to the country at large.

So instead of putting up spurious reasons to not, then moan because everyone wants to do what you do, why don't you change and you take control of your time?

 

[Easy 10]

I agree but having a bit of knowledge of the rail situation, the number of units available for that West Coastway line is minimal, and anything additional is being put on Brighton - Falmer - Lewes on a matchday. The 313s are literally falling to pieces and about 9 of them are out of service with them being retired next year. The DFT don't seem to be interested sending anything down to replace them, so I can't see that side of the coast improving anytime soon. I agree, the club could do more, to make people want to renew, but to put extra services on the West Coastway is something I don't think they have much control or influence of, and they'll have to look at other options. I personally don't think the service is that bad, I always leave town after the pub at about 1.30 - 2 before a game and we've never missed kick off. I do stay behind post-match however every week and have a few pints and gently stroll onto an empty train around six O'clock so never have any problems.

Interesting reply, thanks. Looks like we're between a rock and a hard place then when it comes to rail, and from what you're saying, its only going to get worse.

Happy days.

 

[Uter]

They were not running the Hove to Brighton Shuttles yesterday morning to connect with the Victoria trains and even if they were there, the Victoria trains were all screwed by the issues at Three Bridges.

I had Saturdays in my head when replying. Forgot it was Sunday and no shuttle usually timetabled (the b*st*rds). So just 8 coaches an hour to ferry all the shoppers / day trippers / supporters into Brighton from Hove onwards. Dismal, especially when you consider weekend demand is pretty much back to pre-Covid levels. Glad I eschewed the train on last Sunday.

I realise this thread has been a bit derailed (pun not intended) by people moaning about the Coastway West service, but just to echo others it is terrible now. I realise it's been bad in the past too because of industrial action, but at least the basic service provision was better.

As Hove is my nearest station at least I have the option of getting the bus or walking to Brighton if the trains are so packed I can't board, but I feel for those coming from further west. I took my 10 year old to a match recently and rather than wait for the shuttle I made the mistake of squeezing onto an already packed train (from memory this was about 2.5 hours before kick off). The overcrowding really upset her. I was pretty annoyed with myself and Southern at that point.

Unfortunately it sounds like the situation is unlikely to improve until the ancient 313 units are replaced.

 

[jackalbion]

Can that work with the short Falmer platforms?

When others suggested this in the past, nsc rail experts poured cold water on the idea.

A limited number of Thameslink drivers know the route via Lewes, which can only be used during Disruption, most of that is due to them being ex southern, so that's not possible