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[Drinking] Milk



tedebear

Legal Alien
Jul 7, 2003
16,903
In my computer
The more I hear about the dairy industry as well as the beef and pork industries, the more I choose other products, although bacon, sausages and cheese are really just yum...But I need to make my own personal choices in line with my own environmental desires...although I'm far from perfect in what I choose, but I am trying to be more concious.

Having said that, drinking full fat milk is what I've read is not great for you, we as humans cannot digest saturated fatty acids very well as opposed to young cows that are its intended consumer!. This causes an increased risk of cardio vascular disease and stroke as it raises the ratio of LDL to HDL cholesterol. HDL (good) moves the LDL (bad) out of the bloodstream so you want more HDL than LDL. Full fat increases LDL so should be reduced in your diet....Thats my less than scientific understanding anyhow...

I'm mid switch to almond milk (drink / juice as its not really milk) I have it now in smoothies, but need to switch the coffee and tea now...somewhat aprehensive! :ROFLMAO:
 




herecomesaregular

We're in the pipe, 5 by 5
Oct 27, 2008
4,419
Still in Brighton
I do remember a big newspaper article that you really only ought to drink organic milk, the rest is really poor quality and poor animal welfare.

As for almond milk, American especially, it's awful for the bee population apparently who are worked to exhaustion and death. More details available on Google.
 
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Reactions: abc


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,622
Please can you explain this point?

In the UK quite a lot of our almond milk comes from European, rain watered almonds.

Even looking at a place like California, almond milk uses less water per litre, less land and has a lower carbon footprint.

Cows milk uses twice as much water to produce the same amount of milk vs almond milk.

Oat milk doesn't have to be made with all those ingredients anyway, only certain brands will have that.
how much land use changes and water consumed if we switched from dairy to almond gallon for gallon?

alternatives look good because they are so low consumption, they dont scale out.
 


Goldstone Guy

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2006
326
Hove
Some fantastic parody replies from people pretending to be “wokeistas” - really made me laugh. This thread couldn’t have gone better - some genuine insight and some brilliant trolling from pretend “vegans”. :lol:
Anyone who tries to discredit what others are saying by using the term "woke/wokeism/wokeistas/woke-something" is not worth listening to (see Anderson, Lee).
 


tedebear

Legal Alien
Jul 7, 2003
16,903
In my computer
I do remember a big newspaper article that you really only ought to drink organic milk, the rest is really poor quality and poor animal welfare.

As for almond milk, American especially, it's awful for the bee population apparently who are worked to exhaustion and death. More details available on Google.


Yes, its hard to keep up, but I might try hazlenut next..
 




abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,183
Please can you explain this point?

In the UK quite a lot of our almond milk comes from European, rain watered almonds.

Even looking at a place like California, almond milk uses less water per litre, less land and has a lower carbon footprint.

Cows milk uses twice as much water to produce the same amount of milk vs almond milk.

Oat milk doesn't have to be made with all those ingredients anyway, only certain brands will have that.


Factually incorrect.

When it comes to lowering our carbon footprint, what we eat makes far more difference than where it comes from.

View attachment 183144

Sorry but you statements re almond milk are incorrect.

Almonds can only be grown in dry, hot climates. Farming almonds requires large amounts of irrigation at a time when these areas are getting dryer due to climate change and the competition for water is increasing. ONE almond requires 6.44 litres of water. One litre of Almond milk on average uses 107 litres of blue water (water that is suitable for human consumption) whilst cows milk requires just 8 litres of blue water on average. (Figures from Cranfield University's report on climate change).This is predominantly because dairying is globally concentrated in areas of high rainfall. In the UK, the use of blue water could be reduced to zero if cow's drinking water was collected and stored from rainfall. This is not possible in areas suitable for growing almonds and in many such areas the large almond farms are clashing directly with a population that are facing water shortages.
That is the main reason why Almond milk is bad from a sustainability perspective but also add the fact that any cows milk you buy will be produced n the UK when no almond milk ever can be.

From a health perspective, cows milk is an entirely natural unprocessed product whilst the average almond milk offer contains 2% almonds (Also Cranfield University). Water, added sweeteners, vitamins, minerals and thickening agents make up the rest.
None of this means you should drink cows milk if you don't want to but it is why I say oat milk is a more sustainable alternative - preferably from organic oats.

There is no 'factually correct' answer as to whether how or what we farm is most important - as said it is a very nuanced debate and both are relevant. The IPPC (Intergovernmental panel on Climate change) stated that livestock farming in northern europe is part of the solution to climate change because of available rainfall, grass as a carbon sink etc. However this assumes that livestock are grazed rather than kept in doors all year and if they are not then they are part of the problem not the solution.
Similarly soya 'milk' environmental disastrous if rainforest is being cut down to grow the soya. If it is grown on ordinary arable land (it is even possible in the UK) in a sound rotation then there is nothing wrong with soya.

Both of my examples are nuanced; both can be good and both can be bad. This is why I believe it is the 'how' not the 'what' where we should focus first and foremost.



 




abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,183
The more I hear about the dairy industry as well as the beef and pork industries, the more I choose other products, although bacon, sausages and cheese are really just yum...But I need to make my own personal choices in line with my own environmental desires...although I'm far from perfect in what I choose, but I am trying to be more concious.

Having said that, drinking full fat milk is what I've read is not great for you, we as humans cannot digest saturated fatty acids very well as opposed to young cows that are its intended consumer!. This causes an increased risk of cardio vascular disease and stroke as it raises the ratio of LDL to HDL cholesterol. HDL (good) moves the LDL (bad) out of the bloodstream so you want more HDL than LDL. Full fat increases LDL so should be reduced in your diet....Thats my less than scientific understanding anyhow...

I'm mid switch to almond milk (drink / juice as its not really milk) I have it now in smoothies, but need to switch the coffee and tea now...somewhat aprehensive! :ROFLMAO:
Just for interest, what do you think the full fat % of cows milk is? The answer is just 3.6% which officially makes it a low fat food. There is currently a very significant shift in consumer behaviour to full fat milk (as opposed to skimmed/semi skimmed) because apparently sound research has shown the body absorbs the vitamins and nutrients better from full fat. The consumption of alternative milks is also dropping in favour of cows milk. Market research suggests this is primarily due to cost but also due to the realisation that the alternatives are all highly processed when cows milk is not.

As a previous poster commented 'you cant keep up'! I am sure the answer is to drink or eat what suits you, always in sensible moderation as part of a balanced diet and live and let live if you don't agree with someone else's preference!
 








jackanada

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2011
3,305
Brighton
To quote Ron Burgundy; "And you ate the whole wheel of cheese? How'd you do that? Heck, I'm not even mad; that's amazing.”
It's not just me. There's the missus and three primary age children.
Christ knows what the food bill is going to be when they're teenagers.

Oh and three dozen eggs, I haven't dared tot up the other foodstuffs.
 














AstroSloth

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2020
1,143
how much land use changes and water consumed if we switched from dairy to almond gallon for gallon?

alternatives look good because they are so low consumption, they dont scale out.
They scale out far better than dairy lmao.

Per litre they use less water, less land and have a lower carbon footprint.

If you scale it up then it would lower the impact due to reducing inefficiencies due to smaller scale size currently.
 




HalfaSeatOn

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2014
1,972
North West Sussex
Used to be a big milk drinker and now just oat milk, coconut milk etc that my wife stocks in the fridge. A mix of laziness but I think that film ‘Cow’ had an impact.
 
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BN9 BHA

DOCKERS
NSC Patron
Jul 14, 2013
21,897
Newhaven
So, I get through four 2l bottles of semi skimmed milk per week. I drink it mostly straight. My girlfriend finds it very weird - and says it’s the behaviour of a movie villain.

View attachment 183101
I saw this today and thought of you :smile:

IMG_1618.jpeg
 


abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,183
Per litre they use less water, less land and have a lower carbon footprint.
.

Please base your assertion on knowledge and facts rather than your bias. What you are saying is simply not true. If we are to ever address climate change we have to abandon personal bias or preference in favour of what actually makes a difference and is true
 


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