Malaysian airline crash

[dingodan]

yes, more mis-informtation and misdirection from the Russians. funny that, especially when they are calling out the US on satellite images but dont produce anything themselves, except press releases.

Armed with a number of slides, charts and images, two high-ranking officials of Russia's General Staff later on Monday laid out a case against Kiev and Washington at a specially called briefing.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/ukraine-...-plane-mh17-before-crash-moscow/487442-2.html

If you were listening to both sides, rather than one side, you would have read this already.

But you basically are saying that the Russians are inherently untrustworthy and the West inherently trustworthy. If you do work on that basis, then you will find yourself particularly susceptible to propaganda.

Looked at without prejudice both sides are fully capable of lying, best we can do is hope that all the data and evidence will be made available, and hope it will be reviewed independently.

 

[carlzeiss]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28509522

 

[dingodan]

Reports of 20-30 Civilians killed by shelling in the East

 

[sparkie]

"Illegal armed groups are using Ukrainian state symbols when shelling and killing civilians in the east of the country."

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukrainian-news-separatists-using-ukrainian-state-symbols-when-killing-civilians-in-eastern-ukraine-358124.html

 

[dingodan]

"Illegal armed groups are using Ukrainian state symbols when shelling and killing civilians in the east of the country."

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukrainian-news-separatists-using-ukrainian-state-symbols-when-killing-civilians-in-eastern-ukraine-358124.html

The Kyiv post is not unbiased, same as Russia Today. That's a reason for caution, and reading beyond the headline, no evidence is offered.

Does the headline mean that if we hear of Ukrainian military killing civilians, we should believe that it is the Rebel forces in costume?

Without any evidence should it neutralize any accusations of atrocities leveled at the Ukrainian military?

Think.

EDIT: "The press center of the government's anti-terrorist operation announced this in a statement."

 

[dingodan]

Intercepted telephone call between Urmas Paet, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Estonia & Catherine Ashton, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy for the European Union.

Talking about the sniper shootings which led to the overthrow of the old regime:

 

[beorhthelm]

If you were listening to both sides, rather than one side, you would have read this already.

to be honest ive not listened much to either side on this matter, after the admissions on the day of the commander on the ground that they shot down a plane. pretty obvious to me both sides are spinning it up to their own end. i would certainly view Russian media less trustworthy as it is less indepedent and simply doesnt have a tradition of exposing or critically analysing the leaders and "official" sources. you just want to see more and more data and evidence, but ignore the best, unbiased, first hand information we have on the matter, and now seem to be carrying out an agenda to report every bad thing the Kiev government might do. pretty obvious which side you've chosen, you just wont admit it.

 

[dingodan]

I don't think I've ever heard this before.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/black-boxes-age-could-mean-limited-data-1406506152